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The Invitation To Heaven

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Mar 13, 2021.

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  1. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Who says they're not born again?

    There is a pile of presumption in this statement. If one's errors are what you judge another's salvation by, you have a lot to fear yourself. Forget about the nuns.
     
    #101 Aaron, Mar 17, 2021
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Do you know what it is to be "born again" in the RCC? This will answer you.
     
    #102 SavedByGrace, Mar 17, 2021
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I'm serious. Do you know what peril you are in if Calvin was right about sin and grace?
     
    #103 1689Dave, Mar 17, 2021
  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” Hebrews 12:2 (KJV 1900)
     
    #104 1689Dave, Mar 17, 2021
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  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    this can be turned back on you. what about the fact that on John 3:16; Mark 14:24, and Colossians 1:14, where it is clear that Calvin believed that Jesus died for "everyone without exception", which means, the entire human race! here are his words on John 3:16.

    And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found inthe world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.

    Notice also that Calvin uses that word INVITE.
     
    #105 SavedByGrace, Mar 17, 2021
  6. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You should take your own advice.
     
    #106 Reformed1689, Mar 17, 2021
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    hey, you back? So how about dealing with the 2 passages in the OP, and show if I am right or wrong?
     
    #107 SavedByGrace, Mar 17, 2021
  8. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    If anything, these passages enhance the reformed position. There is a general call to repentance. People know the Gospel, they hear the Gospel preached but it is not their will to follow the Gospel. That's the whole point. THey don't want it. They are not true guests to the banquet. Just as in the PARABLES (and it is important to note these are parables) there were people who showed up not because they wanted the right things, they just wanted to be part of the party. In life, people may want "fire insurance" but they don't want salvation and what that truly means. Depart from me, I never knew you. THat is what those people will hear.

    So the OP fails to understand these passages and ignores other parts of Scripture.
     
    #108 Reformed1689, Mar 17, 2021
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  9. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I did, don't worry.
     
    #109 Reformed1689, Mar 17, 2021
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  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Calvin was off in many things. He taught universal atonement that needs the gospel offered as a law.

    But free will turns the gospel into law and grace into works. Any school kid knows it depicts God as a bully who forces people to "say uncle" or face the consequences. Grace does not do this. It shows God as a merciful savior who takes those who cannot believe and turns them into dedicated believers through the new birth.

    “And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)
     
    #110 1689Dave, Mar 17, 2021
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  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    You are talking theology here, and it is not in agreement with what the Bible actually says. You say, "There is a general call to repentance", which means that Acts 17:30 is for the entire human race. "The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent". Question is, why would God give a "general call" for every sinner to "repent" of their sins, if those who are the "non elect", can never be saved? Is God playing games with people? Telling them to do something that He already knows will not benefit them? Why waste any time with those for who Jesus did not shed His blood, and who can never get into heaven? You also say, "People know the Gospel, they hear the Gospel preached but it is not their will to follow the Gospel". This must mean that they do have FREE WILL, to reject the Gospel Invitation.
     
    #111 SavedByGrace, Mar 17, 2021
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    say what? God takes those who "cannot believe", which means the non elect, "turns them into dedicated believers through the new birth". do you hear yourself? You sound as confused about salvation as you say Calvin was! :eek:
     
    #112 SavedByGrace, Mar 17, 2021
  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Shall we add Buddhist monks, or Hindu Yogis?
    The Bible says "all our righteousness is as filthy rags." That means no one is "godly" if they are outside of Christ. That means, they love darkness rather than light. That means they were no different than the scribes and Pharisees, which Jesus said were the sons of the evil one.

    Matthew 13:38-42

    Their field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Only Jesus (God) is the cause of righteousness.
     
    #113 AustinC, Mar 17, 2021
  14. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    And this again proves you do not know or intentionally misrepresent or misunderstand the reformed position. Of course we believe in free will, but you define free will differently than we do. I FIRMLY believe people are free to choose what they want. I do not believe people have an equal choice between two options as if they have no predisposed bias towards one.
     
    #114 Reformed1689, Mar 17, 2021
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Most of the elect begin as unbelievers. Except for John the Baptist and perhaps elect infants who die.
     
    #115 1689Dave, Mar 17, 2021
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    then WHY would God through Joshua say, "CHOOSE this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” (24:15). the CHOICE is very clear, follow the Lord, or the devil. Saved of eternally lost. Could not be more simple!
     
    #116 SavedByGrace, Mar 17, 2021
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    so the "non elect" infants who have NO idea what is even going on, to either accept or reject Jesus as their Saviour, and automatically damned to eternal suffering??? This makes the God of the Bible a very unfair and unjust Person!
     
    #117 SavedByGrace, Mar 17, 2021
  18. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    They are judged wicked in Adam. It only proves the folly of your "works" position. All infants are lost who cannot "say uncle" and save themselves.
     
    #118 1689Dave, Mar 17, 2021
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    you do talk a load of tosh! Have you ever read Jonah 3:10 in the KJV? "And God saw their WORKS, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not". And Acts 10:35? "But in every nation he that feareth him, and WORKETH righteousness, is accepted with him". Don't try to blame me for what the Bible actually teaches! :rolleyes:
     
    #119 SavedByGrace, Mar 17, 2021
  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    This had nothing to do with salvation. It was the same for Israel. God would not destroy them if they repented as a nation.
     
    #120 1689Dave, Mar 17, 2021
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