The Invitation To Heaven

[Aaron]

what about those, like the Catholic nuns and monks, who probably live more "godly" lives than many born-again Christians do.

Who says they're not born again?

Do you think that they "love their darkness"? They might be blinded to the Truth of the Gospel, for their salvation, but I am sure they are not enemies of God, nor in rebellion, knowingly.

There is a pile of presumption in this statement. If one's errors are what you judge another's salvation by, you have a lot to fear yourself. Forget about the nuns.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Who says they're not born again?

Do you know what it is to be "born again" in the RCC? This will answer you.

 

[1689Dave]

Yet another ignore the topic and disparage the poster post. They are truly one trick ponies, filled with hate for the truth.

I'm serious. Do you know what peril you are in if Calvin was right about sin and grace?

 

[1689Dave]

Now we can compare your interpretation to the truth.

"Listen, my fellow siblings in Christ, has not God chosen the poor to this world, yet rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which He has promised to those that love Him."

Key points:
1) beloved brethren refers to James' fellow Christians, rather than Jews or just men.

2) The idea is God has chosen individuals who were poor in the eyes of the world, or poor according to the world's value system.

3) The verb "chosen" has three objects or receptors of its action: (a) those poor to this world, (b) those rich in faith, and (c) those who love God and therefore heirs to the kingdom promised.

4) In order to be poor to this world those chosen were existing in the world when chosen, not foreseen individuals before creation.

5) In order to be rich in faith, those chosen were existing in the world and had their faith credited as righteousness by God.

6) In order to be heirs to the promised kingdom, those chosen were existing in the world and loved God, rather than foreseen individuals who would love God.

“Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” Hebrews 12:2 (KJV 1900)

 

[SavedByGrace]

I'm serious. Do you know what peril you are in if Calvin was right about sin and grace?

this can be turned back on you. what about the fact that on John 3:16; Mark 14:24, and Colossians 1:14, where it is clear that Calvin believed that Jesus died for "everyone without exception", which means, the entire human race! here are his words on John 3:16.

And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found inthe world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.

Notice also that Calvin uses that word INVITE.

 

[Reformed1689]

Don't keep on going to other places in the Bible, to suppose that you can somehow get rid of what these passages very clearly DO teach.

You should take your own advice.

 

[SavedByGrace]

You should take your own advice.

hey, you back? So how about dealing with the 2 passages in the OP, and show if I am right or wrong?

 

[Reformed1689]

Matthew 22: And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. 4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.” ’ 5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. 7 But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.’ 10 So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’14 “For many are called, but few are chosen.”

Luke 14: 15 When one of those who reclined at table with him heard these things, he said to him, “Blessed is everyone who will eat bread in the kingdom of God!” 16 But he said to him, “A man once gave a great banquet and invited many. 17 And at the time for the banquet he sent his servant to say to those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’ 18 But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it. Please have me excused.’ 19 And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to examine them. Please have me excused.’ 20 And another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ 21 So the servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house became angry and said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly to the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in the poor and crippled and blind and lame.’ 22 And the servant said, ‘Sir, what you commanded has been done, and still there is room.’ 23 And the master said to the servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I tell you, none of those men who were invited shall taste my banquet.’”

These two accounts are a clear presentation of the Gospel to the entire human race, without exception. It is also clear from this, that the Reformed/Calvinistic teaching of “election to salvation”, is unbiblical.

Firstly, we see that that sinners are INVITED to ACCEPT the Gospel OFFER, which clearly is UNIVERSAL.

Secondly, those who are INVITED are able to ACCEPT or REJECT this OFFER, showing that ALL sinners must possess the God-given ABILITY to CHOOSE.

Thirdly, those who are originally INVITED and made EXCUSES not to ACCEPT the OFFER, were REJECTED by the Lord, which shows that the Reformed/Calvinistic teaching of “Irresistible Grace”, cannot be correct.

Fourthly, we can see from Matthew’s account, that the Gospel OFFER is NOT for only the ELECT, as it very clearly says, that both the GOOD and BAD are to be INVITED to Heaven. This cannot mean only the ELECT, and must also include what is known as the NON ELECT, that is, the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE.

Fifthly, in Luke’s account, we read that ALL sinners are COMPELLED, the Greek is ἀναγκάζω, which means, “to necessitate, compel, by persuasion, entreaties”. Again, against the Reformed/Calvinistic teaching of “Irresistible Grace” and of “election to salvation”. As no “elect” person would ever have to be “persuaded or entreated” to ACCEPT the Gospel for their salvation!

Sixthly, Jesus Christ is The ONLY Way to get to Heaven, as seen from the UNINVITED person, who thought there was another “way”.

Seventh, much of the so called Five Points of Calvinism, are destroyed by these two passages, and they are clerarly shown to be UNBIBLICAL.

If anything, these passages enhance the reformed position. There is a general call to repentance. People know the Gospel, they hear the Gospel preached but it is not their will to follow the Gospel. That's the whole point. THey don't want it. They are not true guests to the banquet. Just as in the PARABLES (and it is important to note these are parables) there were people who showed up not because they wanted the right things, they just wanted to be part of the party. In life, people may want "fire insurance" but they don't want salvation and what that truly means. Depart from me, I never knew you. THat is what those people will hear.

So the OP fails to understand these passages and ignores other parts of Scripture.

 

[Reformed1689]

hey, you back? So how about dealing with the 2 passages in the OP, and show if I am right or wrong?

I did, don't worry.

 

[1689Dave]

this can be turned back on you. what about the fact that on John 3:16; Mark 14:24, and Colossians 1:14, where it is clear that Calvin believed that Jesus died for "everyone without exception", which means, the entire human race! here are his words on John 3:16.

And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found inthe world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.

Notice also that Calvin uses that word INVITE.

Calvin was off in many things. He taught universal atonement that needs the gospel offered as a law.

But free will turns the gospel into law and grace into works. Any school kid knows it depicts God as a bully who forces people to "say uncle" or face the consequences. Grace does not do this. It shows God as a merciful savior who takes those who cannot believe and turns them into dedicated believers through the new birth.

“And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)

 

[SavedByGrace]

If anything, these passages enhance the reformed position. There is a general call to repentance. People know the Gospel, they hear the Gospel preached but it is not their will to follow the Gospel. That's the whole point. THey don't want it. They are not true guests to the banquet. Just as in the PARABLES (and it is important to note these are parables) there were people who showed up not because they wanted the right things, they just wanted to be part of the party. In life, people may want "fire insurance" but they don't want salvation and what that truly means. Depart from me, I never knew you. THat is what those people will hear.

So the OP fails to understand these passages and ignores other parts of Scripture.

You are talking theology here, and it is not in agreement with what the Bible actually says. You say, "There is a general call to repentance", which means that Acts 17:30 is for the entire human race. "The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent". Question is, why would God give a "general call" for every sinner to "repent" of their sins, if those who are the "non elect", can never be saved? Is God playing games with people? Telling them to do something that He already knows will not benefit them? Why waste any time with those for who Jesus did not shed His blood, and who can never get into heaven? You also say, "People know the Gospel, they hear the Gospel preached but it is not their will to follow the Gospel". This must mean that they do have FREE WILL, to reject the Gospel Invitation.

 

[SavedByGrace]

It shows God as a merciful savior who takes those who cannot believe and turns them into dedicated believers through the new birth.

say what? God takes those who "cannot believe", which means the non elect, "turns them into dedicated believers through the new birth". do you hear yourself? You sound as confused about salvation as you say Calvin was!

 

[AustinC]

what about those, like the Catholic nuns and monks, who probably live more "godly" lives than many born-again Christians do. Do you think that they "love their darkness"? They might be blinded to the Truth of the Gospel, for their salvation, but I am sure they are not enemies of God, nor in rebellion, knowingly.

Shall we add Buddhist monks, or Hindu Yogis?
The Bible says "all our righteousness is as filthy rags." That means no one is "godly" if they are outside of Christ. That means, they love darkness rather than light. That means they were no different than the scribes and Pharisees, which Jesus said were the sons of the evil one.

Matthew 13:38-42

Their field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Only Jesus (God) is the cause of righteousness.

 

[Reformed1689]

You are talking theology here, and it is not in agreement with what the Bible actually says. You say, "There is a general call to repentance", which means that Acts 17:30 is for the entire human race. "The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent". Question is, why would God give a "general call" for every sinner to "repent" of their sins, if those who are the "non elect", can never be saved? Is God playing games with people? Telling them to do something that He already knows will not benefit them? Why waste any time with those for who Jesus did not shed His blood, and who can never get into heaven? You also say, "People know the Gospel, they hear the Gospel preached but it is not their will to follow the Gospel". This must mean that they do have FREE WILL, to reject the Gospel Invitation.

And this again proves you do not know or intentionally misrepresent or misunderstand the reformed position. Of course we believe in free will, but you define free will differently than we do. I FIRMLY believe people are free to choose what they want. I do not believe people have an equal choice between two options as if they have no predisposed bias towards one.

 

[1689Dave]

say what? God takes those who "cannot believe", which means the non elect, "turns them into dedicated believers through the new birth". do you hear yourself? You sound as confused about salvation as you say Calvin was!

Most of the elect begin as unbelievers. Except for John the Baptist and perhaps elect infants who die.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I do not believe people have an equal choice between two options as if they have no predisposed bias towards one.

then WHY would God through Joshua say, "CHOOSE this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathers served in the region beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” (24:15). the CHOICE is very clear, follow the Lord, or the devil. Saved of eternally lost. Could not be more simple!

 

[SavedByGrace]

perhaps elect infants who die

so the "non elect" infants who have NO idea what is even going on, to either accept or reject Jesus as their Saviour, and automatically damned to eternal suffering??? This makes the God of the Bible a very unfair and unjust Person!

 

[1689Dave]

so the "non elect" infants who have NO idea what is even going on, to either accept or reject Jesus as their Saviour, and automatically damned to eternal suffering??? This makes the God of the Bible a very unfair and unjust Person!

They are judged wicked in Adam. It only proves the folly of your "works" position. All infants are lost who cannot "say uncle" and save themselves.

 

[SavedByGrace]

It only proves the folly of your "works" position

you do talk a load of tosh! Have you ever read Jonah 3:10 in the KJV? "And God saw their WORKS, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not". And Acts 10:35? "But in every nation he that feareth him, and WORKETH righteousness, is accepted with him". Don't try to blame me for what the Bible actually teaches!

 

[1689Dave]

you do talk a load of tosh! Have you ever read Jonah 3:10 in the KJV? "And God saw their WORKS, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not". And Acts 10:35? "But in every nation he that feareth him, and WORKETH righteousness, is accepted with him". Don't try to blame me for what the Bible actually teaches!

This had nothing to do with salvation. It was the same for Israel. God would not destroy them if they repented as a nation.