It is not associated with premillennialism at all. You need to check the history of this doctrine.
http://hethathasanear.com/ReplacementTheology.pdf
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The Israel of God
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http://hethathasanear.com/ReplacementTheology.pdf
Protestant
Well-Known Member
And so all Israel shall be saved.
Israelites are simply Jews who live in Israel.
But there are innumerable Jews who live in Europe, Russia, South America, North America, etc.
Are they any less important to God?
Is the Lord not concerned with their salvation?
Or is He focused only on Jews who live in a particular part of the world’s real estate?
Are they more ‘beloved’ because of their address?
This statement was written by an Israeli Apostle:
And so all Israel shall be saved.
Do you believe for one moment that Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, does not include all Elect Jews scattered throughout the world, as opposed to speaking only of those Jews who reside in Israel?
Furthermore, Paul has never considered Jews – whether Israeli or otherwise – to comprise a separate entity within God’s Kingdom.
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
One is not two.
The Replacement Theology is yours, not ours.
You replace Elect Jews worldwide with only those Jews who live on a parcel of dirt called Israel.
Rather a silly argument isn't it? Let's look at it this way:
What gives Obama the right to try to hunt down non-resident Americans, those who live all over the world, who do their civic duty in paying their taxes to the country in which they live. But Obama wants them to pay to America as well.
There are many unfulfilled prophecies where God has promised that He will again bring Israel into the land. He will defeat her enemies:
Joe 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
The nation of Israel is often referred to God's elect. It simply depends on the context of the passage you are reading. There will come a day when once again the Lord will turn his focus upon the nation of Israel, and once again they will become as the apple of his eye.
Oh, yes he has.
He is coming for his bride. The Church is His Bride. He is the groom.
Then there will be tribulation for seven years.
During that time there will be the marriage of the bride, and the marriage feast.
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
John testifying of himself and of Christ said much earlier:
Joh 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
--John the Baptist was an OT saint, the last of the OT prophets. He was not part of the Bride, but was "a friend of the Bride." Nevertheless he rejoiced greatly to hear the bridegroom's voice. He would be there celebrating with the rest, just not part of the bride itself (which would be the Church).
In Revelation 19 it describes the coming of Christ after the Tribulation. He is coming for "his elect" the Jews. He is coming with his saints, the Jews. It also indicates that they will "rule and reign with him." Israel will be saved. The saints will occupy a special place in the Kingdom. OT saints yet another place. Each one will have his own place. Now, we are only one in Christ as we trust the Lord in this dispensation of grace. Once Christ comes, that opportunity will be over.
Duly noted. Right now we all come to Christ the same way. I said that in my previous post. Whether Gentile or Jew, there is only one way to Christ. But prophecy does not remain unfulfilled. Christ does not lie. He fulfills his promises and will do so for the Jews. The Jewish nation will be saved. Her enemies will be defeated.
http://hethathasanear.com/ReplacementTheology.pdf
Read and learn. It is a heresy.
Ahab, Jezebel, and Manasseh were all Jews or Israelites. It doesn't mean they are in heaven. But they were chosen of God to be an Israelite. The verse:
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
--This refers to Israel's past, those Israelites such as Ahab and Jezebel. It does not refer to Christians today.
God's OT promises still apply to the elect of Israel.
God's promises still apply to believers. Be sure to know which are which. Not every promise in the Bible is directed to you (the NT believer). We can't claim them all for ourselves.
savedbymercy
New Member
And so all Israel shall be saved !
Rom 11:26
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Now what religionists do not understand because God has hid the Mystery of the Gospel and Israel from them, which btw is not a favorable omen, it is that God was indeed Keeping His Gospel and Saving Promise to Israel as Per Isa 45:17
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Thats a Gospel of the Good News of Salvation Promise , this one Eph 3:6
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body[Israel], and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
God was keeping this Salvation Saving Promise even in light of rejecting and the casting away of national israel, for He was keeping it by now calling in the Gentiles, for they are fellowheirs of the Same Promise and Body [the commonwealth of Israel Eph 2:12]
The word commonwealth of Eph 2:12 as in the Commonwealth of Israel, is the greek word politeia and basically means:
citizen body, citizenship, (a) commonwealth, polity; citizen body, (b) (the Roman) citizenship, citizen-rights, franchise.
So the Gentiles by the Gospel are partakers of the Same Gospel Promises as the Citzen Body of the Commonwealth of Israel.
This Grafted them into the Citizenship of Covenant Israel , so we read Rom 11:17,19,24
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them[The commonwealth of Israel], and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
The word engraft means:
to engraft (insert) by making a puncture to graft a living shoot into another living plant (tree).
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Paul was telling the Gentiles that they had been by the operation of God grafted into the Good Olive Tree, Israel Elect, for it certainly could not have meant national israel that was cast away because of unbelief !
Thats the Mystery of Israel, that Both Elect Jews and Gentiles together comprise that Israel that shall be saved in the Lord Jesus Christ Isa 45:17
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
So in this manner, engrafting the Gentiles into the Good Live Tree of the Commonwealty of Israel, all Israel shall be saved Rom 11:25-26
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery[Of Israel], lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:483
Rom 11:26
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Now what religionists do not understand because God has hid the Mystery of the Gospel and Israel from them, which btw is not a favorable omen, it is that God was indeed Keeping His Gospel and Saving Promise to Israel as Per Isa 45:17
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Thats a Gospel of the Good News of Salvation Promise , this one Eph 3:6
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body[Israel], and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
God was keeping this Salvation Saving Promise even in light of rejecting and the casting away of national israel, for He was keeping it by now calling in the Gentiles, for they are fellowheirs of the Same Promise and Body [the commonwealth of Israel Eph 2:12]
The word commonwealth of Eph 2:12 as in the Commonwealth of Israel, is the greek word politeia and basically means:
citizen body, citizenship, (a) commonwealth, polity; citizen body, (b) (the Roman) citizenship, citizen-rights, franchise.
So the Gentiles by the Gospel are partakers of the Same Gospel Promises as the Citzen Body of the Commonwealth of Israel.
This Grafted them into the Citizenship of Covenant Israel , so we read Rom 11:17,19,24
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them[The commonwealth of Israel], and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
The word engraft means:
to engraft (insert) by making a puncture to graft a living shoot into another living plant (tree).
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Paul was telling the Gentiles that they had been by the operation of God grafted into the Good Olive Tree, Israel Elect, for it certainly could not have meant national israel that was cast away because of unbelief !
Thats the Mystery of Israel, that Both Elect Jews and Gentiles together comprise that Israel that shall be saved in the Lord Jesus Christ Isa 45:17
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
So in this manner, engrafting the Gentiles into the Good Live Tree of the Commonwealty of Israel, all Israel shall be saved Rom 11:25-26
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery[Of Israel], lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:483
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Read what I said again DHK.
I don't care where the doctrine came from. I simply said: I never hear anyone talk about Replacement Theology but pre-trib-dispensationalists.
My doctrine is that presented in the above quote!
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Your link was a diatribe by a pre-trib-dispensationalist. Am I to assume he is writing under the inspiration of God. I believe that God is through with the nation Israel. As I noted above
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One would just conclude that anyone who explains things that goes against your beliefs is simply writing a "diatribe." A false accusation to say the least. He wrote a well-written history of the doctrine and then the error of it. It would be wise for you to pay attention to it. Perhaps you might google the doctrine "Replacement Theology" for yourself, and you will find many other such articles explaining the same thing.
I will ask you the same question: "Are you inspired?"
You say: "I believe that God is through with the nation of Israel."
That is your opinion, but it is not what the Bible teaches. Your opinion is wrong.
Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.
--But God is not done with them yet. They are blinded for a season; slumber for a season; do not hear for a season.
Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
--Has God done away with them completely. God forbid.
But rather through this temporary fall, God has used this to allow YOU to come to salvation, and secondarily to provoke THEM to jealousy or that in time they also will repent and turn back to God. They are still distinct.
Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
--They were cast down that the rest of the world (the Gentiles) might be reconciled to God--or at least have the opportunity (2Cor.5:18-21).
--But then what shall the receiving of them be? IOW, how will they be saved in the future?
Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
--The root is Abraham and the patriarchs. "Some of the branches" are Israel. They were broken off, but the root remains. The Gentiles are a wild olive tree. That is where you come in. You were simply grafted in, as part of the promises of Abraham were fulfilled. You partake of the blessings of Israel through Christ, and also through those things which came through Israel: the prophets, the Scriptures, and even their heritage. We have much to thank Israel for. "We were grafted in." Christ himself came from Israel.
Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
--This is where many of the Calvinists go directly contrary to Scripture.
Paul says don't boast. Israel still exists. You are simply Gentiles that were grafted into Israel, and that is all. You are not Israel. You are grafted in.
The root remains. Some of the branches have been broken off; not all. You are a wild olive tree, grafted in. You didn't take over the tree; didn't replace it; didn't become it.
Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
--Because of unbelief they were broken off--some of the branches; not all.
Your salvation consists in faith. Salvation is by faith. This is a warning to them that believe not!
Now jump down to verse 25:
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
--Don't be ignorant of this he says. He has already warned you in previous verses.
Blindness has only happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles has come. It has not yet been completed yet.
When the fulness of the Gentiles has come (this dispensation is over), then Israel shall be saved. The Deliverer (Christ) shall come. This is the Second Coming referring to his coming right before the Millennial Kingdom. Then the branches will be restored to the tree once again.
Romans 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
--Their unbelief now will result in their salvation later.
Protestant
Well-Known Member
LOL. You are now offering Obama as historic proof to substantiate your errant theory? You ARE desperate. LOL.
'The elect of Israel' does not speak to those who dwell on a specific parcel of dirt.
The land of Israel is no holier than downtown Toronto.
Nor are Jews who reside in Israel holier than Jewish Canadians.
Of course, unlike Toronto, there is a huge business in promoting 'pilgrimages' to the 'Holy Land' where the naïve tourist can pay through the nose to see Christ's tomb, touch a piece of His Cross, and handle an actual nail which was driven through His body. The extremely fortunate may catch a glimpse of Our Lady as she appears in shadow form on a tree or church wall.
When referring to those specifically of Jewish ethnicity 'all Israel' refers to those Jewish elect from all corners of the globe.
Our God is not a respecter of persons nor their P.O. Box.
Furthermore, the Apostle Peter has the audacity to call the Christian Church, composed of both Jew and Gentile, a holy nation.
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
There is but one nation of Elect.
There is but one Body of Elect.
There is but one Bride of Elect.
There is but one Church of Elect.
Christ is their King, Head, and Bridegroom.
It was an illustration. If you don't get it I can't help you.
Who came to feast of Pentecost in the first century:
Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
--The place was Jerusalem.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
--Devout Jews out of every nation under heaven.
Some of them are mentioned here:
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
There are specific promises in the Word that tell us that Jews from all over the world will return to Israel. That is happening even today. However, even in the first century the nation of Israel was scattered throughout the known world.
One would think that this concept would be easily understood by Jews own history.
Your opinion is just that--your opinion.
That parcel of land is known around the world as "The Holy Land." (Even my spell checker recognizes it as such
)Secondly, it is the most fought over parcel of land in history.
Never said they were. Americans are Americans no matter where they live, and their reputation world-wide....??
And this is relevant how?
Typical American....
I never said otherwise.
When they are "IN CHRIST" it doesn't matter if they are from Houston or Timbuktu, they are "in Christ."
However the "nation of Israel" outside of Christ will some day recognize their Messiah and turn to Him and be saved.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
DHK, Don't you recall that you rejected out of hand the information I posted by pre-trib-dispensationalist Dr. Thomas Ice about Darby because it did not comport with your beliefs. Is it possible you have had an evil influence on me! God forbid!
Nothing he said conflicts with the statement I made:
The above was in response to a statement in your post #36 shown below:
I have already given my belief about the your comment but there may be some on this BB who believe in "Replacement Theology". How would you respond if people referred to pre-trib-dispensationalism as heresy?
Protestant
Well-Known Member
So you are now using the 'world' as your authority?
What happened to 'Bible' authority?
BY calling a parcel of dirt 'holy' you are promoting Roman Catholic superstition.
The Roman Catholic charlatans, like the 'Holy Land' tours, make much filthy lucre by claiming pilgrimages to 'holy sites' can miraculously cure disease, bestow many blessings of joy and prosperity, gain the pilgrim much favor with God, as well as reward the pilgrim with purgatory 'time off.'
The highlight of a 'Holy Land' tour is the esteemed privilege of 'praying' at a decrepit wall of decaying concrete, the religious act of which, guaranteed, will draw the gullible participant even closer to the Almighty.
I dismiss information that I don't believe is either reliable or relevant.
I have told you many times my basis for discussion is the Word of God, not the authorities that you like to quote. I use the Bible. Is the Bible now evil??
Good, Then you should agree that Israel still exists as a nation today and in the future will turn to Christ as their Messiah.
That is an opinion, and a very biased opinion of yours, not shared by any others. People on this board have differences. I don't know of any other person that has such a hatred of pre-trib that would go so far as to call it heresy but you. We all differ. There is a matter of soul liberty.
But there are some doctrines, like "Millennial Exclusion," which are heretical. Perhaps there are some here that believe in it. There were many that did, and were banned because they believed in it.
Replacement Theology falls in the same category IMO. I believe it is heresy, and so do many others. It has been discussed many times before.
Here are a couple of older threads on it:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=43319&highlight=Replacement+theology+heresy
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=1642&highlight=Replacement+theology+heresy
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
So I am to assume the author of the link you recommended so strongly is receiving revelation from God since you use only the Bible. I thought the Revelation was closed but if you use only the Bible and yet espouse the virtues of Dr. Gary Hedrick simply because you agree with him then you are being disingenuous.
Why would I believe that. The nation Israel served their purpose in God's program to secure the Salvation of His Elect as I have noted many times. Jesus Christ told them: Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. {Matthew 21:43}
Now you show me where that Judgment of Israel was ever revoked!
I have never called pre-trib-dispensationalism heretical. Again DHK you show just how dishonest you are.
I am not familiar with Millennial Exclusion. Is that an offshoot of pre-trib-dispensationalism?
Call it whatever makes you happy. I would not call it heretical though I disagree with it. The Church did not replace National Ethnic Israel. The Church did not even replace True Israel, the true believers of the Old Testament. The Church is simply a continuation of the Saints of the Old Testament! There is one Body of Jesus Christ, one Bride of Jesus Christ, the total number redeemed throughout time.
convicted1
Guest
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Which one is the idol, the pope or the wall?
convicted1
Guest
Never thought about it but, both.
I hope he never puts his ring in his back pocket and his wallet on his finger...
convicted1
Guest
17 “Now, fellow Israelites, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. 18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. 19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20 and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. 21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’[a]
24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’ 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”
Niv
That time of refreshing is the second Coming, when God restores the Kingdom on earth, and back to national isreal, as their messiah is now ruling over them!
The problem though is that Paul saw isreal and the Church still as being 2 seperate things in the Plans of God...
And one the greatest promise to the Jewish people was the coming Messiah/King to reign and rule over them as a greater king david, when was that ever fulfilled yet in history?
Yes, and Amen! Folks need to understand the context of Verse 45: "When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them".
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