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The King James Translation

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Since the accusation of “KJVO” has been assigned to me,
An accusation was not assigned to you. The defined and accurate term KJV-only was presented as a correct description of some of your own stated reasoning in your posts. The accurate term was properly used concerning what you yourself state.


This book entitled Thou Shalt Keep Them edited by Kent Brandenburg in its definitions defined King James Only as follows: “a broad title for any individuals and institutions who read, study, preach, and use only the King James Version as an English translation” (p. 11).

Gary Webb maintained that the Bible doctrine of verbal preservation of Scripture “leads men to adopt the ‘King James Only’ position” (Brandenburg, Thou Shalt Keep Them, p. 20).

Anthony, does the Bible doctrine of verbal preservation of Scripture lead you to adopt the KJV-only position?

According to this definition of King James only in this book edited by Kent Brandbenburg, Anthony, would your stated view be described as KJV-only?
 

Alan Dale Gross

Well-Known Member
Peter Ruckman's teachings which are Heretical and of paramount concern to any people of Faith are the following (1) - (9)

"(1) the KJV is doubly inspired;

"(2) the KJV is advanced revelation;

"(3) the English KJV is as or more Inspired than the Original language Scriptures;

''(4) the KJV can be used to correct the Original language Scriptures;

"(5) there is no need whatsoever to study the Biblical languages of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek due to an “Inspired” English Translation;

"(6) the KJV cannot be improved on (The Defined King James Bible edited by D A Waite and S H Tow and published by Bible For Today is certainly an improvement on the KJV);

"(7) the KJV is the only Bible that has Gospel or Salvific content;

"(8) those who do not use the KJV are Condemned to Hell; and

"(9) all non-English speaking believers must learn English to know the Truth."

Those are 9 very 'Specific' Tenets held by the most radical, unscriptural, fake, phony, and false proponents of the hardline Heretical splinter religionists that were popularized and known as being called "King James Only" or "KJV-Only", by their fabricator, Peter Ruckman.

In keeping with your desperate theme and panicked dependence on advancing you Hate Crimes toward God and His Servants and children, by employing the most disingenuous, dishonest, and wicked equivocations and abuses of the "General vs Specific Argument" fallacy known to Mankind, you twist the above properly and specifically described "King James Only" or "KJV-Only" by attempting to equate those names and the teachings "Specifically" associated with that overall Heretical view of the Holy Bible, by quoting an individual author who intentionally makes the point that his "broad title", is "Generally" speaking of "any individuals and institutions who read, study, preach, and use only the King James Version as an English translation” (p. 11).

What could be more despicable than to spend your time on Earth exclusively "sowing discord among the brethren", regarding extremely different viewpoints held concerning the Word of God and then smearing the God Fearing Bible loving believers and followers of Christ Jesus, who simply recognize the Word of God when they see it and wherever they find a properly Translated copy, which in this case of God's Word Contained in the King James Bible, it is simply in an august and venerable, Miraculous, and Supernaturally Blessed Translation, of which there is no equal, as being the most Magnificent Literary Work ever published and universally acknowledged, for well over four hundred years, to be one of the Greatest Gifts God has ever bestowed on the Human Race.
Your life is being spent finding something wrong with that Godly, Christlike behavior, Led by the Holy Spirit of God.

There is something very, very, sinisterly skewed, warped, and twisted about your chosen walk of life that is not with the Lord.

So, before any discussion of Kent Brandenburg can be permitted, he has several incites into your Anti-Christ ilk.

He's said, "There are more arguments, I’m sure, that the eclectic text people think are brilliant, and that they have on their side, such as their “Septuagint argument” and their “Beza’s conjectural emendation in Revelation 16:5” argument. What I do want to do is to point out the manner of operation of the eclectic text/no preservation side of this argument.

These are Kent Brandenburg's conclusions with respect to those unscrupulous individuals like yourself who have carnal, flesh-filled bright ideas about other people's business that you are apparently ignorant of in their entirety, with brain dead rash guesswork, not being mixed with Faith, by the Enabling of the Holy Spirit.

Kent Brandenburg said:

"First, they don’t present a position themselves. They question yours only.

(With all your brilliant utterly loaded questions, Logo1560, do have a position you can state that you believe?)

"Second, they don’t listen to your position. They normally start arguing with a Ruckmanite or English preservationist, even if you’re not, and then they keep doing that after you have told them several times. On many occasions, I’ve found they will still come back to their arguments against these other groups long after you’ve corrected them several times.

(Wow, does that sound mindlessly familiar?)

"Third, when their point is debunked or defeated, they don’t admit that you’re right in any way. They move on to the next point they want to make. This shows a closed mind and that they’re not interested in the truth, only in winning the argument. They like to argue from history (“Look! Hand copies vary!”), but when they find out that they have no historic basis for their position, that doesn’t matter to them at all. They don’t seem to care at all that their position was not what was believed or taught before the 19th century.

(10-4 on "closed", closed, closed, closed, closed "mind.")

"Fourth, they don’t rely at all on Scripture. On this one doctrine, they look away from the Bible to find out what they believe.

(Far, far, who cares how far away).

"Fifth, their quest is a gotcha-game. They want to catch you in an error. They want to prove mistakes in Scripture. That will justify their use of the modern versions.

(That which is flesh is flesh).

"Sixth, even though they say they believe in the preservation of Scripture, they are trying to show how that God didn’t preserve it.

(With the unbelief of the best of them).

"Seventh, when they ask questions, they expect answers, acting is if the burden of proof is upon our side. When we ask questions, they don’t give answers and they don’t think they have to do that. The burden of proof should be on the people who say that what actually happened is something different than what Scripture promised would happen. What’s difficult about that, of course, is that they would need to show the Original Manuscripts to prove that point.

(The Bible is the discerner, or critic, of the intents of the heart, not the other condescending way around).

"These multiple version*, no preservation people provide the foundation for postmodern uncertainty."

"If we don’t even know what the words are, then how can we be expected to know the meaning?"

From: Standard Conversation Between Multiple Versionist with Perfect Preservationist - WHAT IS TRUTH

*The famous phrase from the 1611 KJV preface ("The Translators to the Reader") is: "...but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principal good one, not justly to be excepted against".

We certainly do not see a similar expression made by the authors of the modern bibles and so they achieved this goal of not having made any plans of making any better ones when they certainly did not.
 

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
You don't deserve to even talk and have lost any credibility or integrity to speak and need to just shut up.



THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT LEADING YOU TO DO THAT AND YOU ARE DESPARATELY SICK IN DOING SO.


And exactly what point is he making by saying "King James Only"? To prefer it and be satisfied with it, not to say that there has been a need to Directly Inspire a new unpreserved Bible, like Ruckman and the modern bible reconstructionists share as their joint denials of the Inspiration and Preservation of the Scripture.


Anthony has not adopted your traitorously gross assailing condemnation of falsely accusing him of holding a position which you really demand to include Peter Ruckman's "King James Only" 'Double-Inspiration" unproven, fraudulent, Biblically implausible lies. Your techniques in doing so are Demonic.


I'm sorry, but you are genuinely an idiot by any definition.


That is 100%, exclusively, the sole effort you ever wish to accomplish and by the way you know you are lying about this and so do we. You're breaking the 10 Commandments right there aren't you, big boy?


Only in your individually convoluted, perverted, misrepresenting, deviate, dumb, depraved, corrupted, falsified, altered, and purely abnormal Arm of the Flesh, you use to reason with a mind affected by the curse of the Fall, without the Aid of the Holy Spirit.


After you cherry pick whatever you consider to be an 'accurate term' from anywhere on the entire internet and that is then exclusively in you imagination ONLY for the purpose of deceiving, as you switch and lie at will about what may or may not have ever been meant as being something to him in some way, or never did and never will, as you make up rubbish to tar and feather his character un-righteously and unjustly, while you go about seeking whom you may devour.

Hard Stop. Give it up, you Faithless generation, and Cease and Desist from your serial defamation of God's people.

You are COO-COO.

Father forgive him, he knows with perfect knowledge exactly what he gets his kicks out of doing to innocent people and yet nothing about him being in the service of Satan to do them incurably, apart from your Divine Intervention.
This is the most bizarre, unhinged, hate-filled post I have ever seen.

Your personal attacks are uncalled for and inappropriate for a Christian forum.
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"Fifth, their quest is a gotcha-game. They want to catch you in an error.
Perhaps you have it backwards since that seems to be your own quest in your strawman misrepresentations and distortions of my consistent scripturally-based position. You have not admitted that you are wrong in making false accusations and in your strawmen distortions. You seem to be using carnal smear tactics.

The indwelling Holy Spirit of truth does lead me to apply scriptural truth consistently and justly and to advocate the use of the exact same measures/standards and to oppose the use of divers measures [double standards] which are an abomination to the LORD. My efforts are to present the truth in agreement with the doctrine of truth taught in the KJV. My consistent view of Bible translations is the same basic view as that of the early English Bible translators and of the KJV translators.
 

JD731

Well-Known Member
Logos, I have to know. Is the word of God on the earth in any form or format? And if you say it is, will you please tell us where it is and let us know if all those thousands of authors you continually quote agreeing with you about the KJV also agree with you on what is the perfect Bible.

I cannot remember you ever saying what is the perfect Bible. I need to know.
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Is the word of God on the earth in any form or format?

I cannot remember you ever saying what is the perfect Bible. I need to know.
Your diversionary question applies to your own unproven, inconsistent views. Do you point to any perfect Bible that was on earth before 1611 and that still exists on earth? I cannot remember you ever saying what the perfect Bible on earth before 1611, before 1769, or before 1869 was. The 1611 edition of the KJV had some errors introduced by men that remained uncorrected until as late as 1769. The 1769 Oxford edition of the KJV introduced as many as 100 errors into the KJV with at least one of those errors remaining uncorrected for over 100 years. Which specific one of the over 30 varying editions of the KJV in use today do you claim to be "the perfect Bible"?

God was just as faithful to preserve His words before 1611 as today. The word of God on the earth today can be in the same form as it was found before 1611 [in multiple varying original-language copies of Scripture]. The multiple varying original-language texts on which the pre-1611 English Bibles and the 1611 KJV were based still exist, and the preserved Scriptures in the original languages remain the proper standard and greater authority for the making and trying of all Bible translations including the KJV.

The same scriptural instructions and principles given in Scripture that would constitute the practice of textual criticism and that were inconsistently practiced in the 1500's and in the making of the KJV could and can still be practiced in the making of post-1611 English Bible translations.

As I have clearly stated before, the pre-1611 English Bibles are the word of God translated into English in the same sense (univocally) as the 1611 KJV is the word of God translated into English and in the same sense (univocally) as post-1611 English Bibles such as the NKJV are the word of God translated into English. Generally speaking, the KJV and the NKJV can be soundly and justly considered to be as much “basically the same” Bibles as the Geneva Bible and the KJV are considered to be or as the Bishops’ Bible and the KJV are considered to be. The NKJV can be regarded as much a textual twin of the KJV as the Bishops’ Bible is. If the Geneva Bible and the KJV can be properly considered “practically identical,” the KJV and the NKJV could also be considered the same. The NKJV can soundly and accurately be regarded as a genuine revision of the KJV in the very same sense (univocally) as the KJV is a genuine revision of the Geneva Bible or the Bishops’ Bible and of all the pre-1611 English Bibles. In the same general sense that the dedication in the 1611 KJV asserts that the KJV is “one more exact translation” as the Bishops’ Bible, the Geneva Bible, the Great Bible, or the Matthew’s Bible, the NKJV can also be asserted to be “one more exact translation.” Was the KJV intended to be a Tyndale’s “lookalike,” Matthew’s Bible “lookalike,” Geneva Bible “lookalike” or Bishops’ Bible “lookalike” even though it was intended to replace them? The KJV may look very similar to the Geneva or the Bishops’, but it is not the same exact Bible translation. Would the KJV be claimed to be a counterfeit Geneva Bible because of all the differences between them?

The NKJV can be soundly or justly considered part of the same family of Bibles, from the same original-language manuscript trail, on the same tree of Bibles, or in the same stream of Bibles as the Great Bible, the Geneva Bible, the Bishops’ Bible, and as the KJV. According to a consistent, just application of the KJV-only view’s good-tree-of-Bibles or pure-stream-of-Bibles argument, the NKJV should be placed on the same tree/stream/line with the Geneva Bible, the KJV, and its other included Bibles. The NKJV would reflect the heritage of the Received Text as well overall as the Geneva Bible, the Bishops’ Bible, or the KJV do. The NKJV is not a fundamentally different Bible or completely different Bible than the pre-1611 English Bibles and the 1611 KJV. Along with being a revision of earlier English Bibles, the NKJV is also a translation of the preserved Scriptures in the original languages in the same sense (univocally) that the Geneva Bible and the KJV are. In addition, the NKJV can as soundly or justly be classified as being overall a literal or formal-equivalent translation in the same sense (univocally) as the Geneva Bible or the KJV can be. The NKJV is the word of God translated into English in the same sense (univocally) or in the same way that the Geneva Bible or the KJV is the word of God translated into English. As a Bible translation, the NKJV is profitable for doctrine in the same way and in the same sense that the Geneva Bible and the KJV are profitable for doctrine.
 
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