"The kingdom of heaven is at hand."

[Martin Marprelate]

Which 'time was at hand' and to 'shortly come to pass', not thousands of years and still waiting.

Revelation 1:1. 'The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants-- things which must shortly take place.'
Revelation 1:3. 'Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep the things written in it; for the time is near' [or 'at hand'].

These verses may present problems to premillennialists, but they must answer for themselves. They present no problem to the Amil, because
1. Neither of them speaks of the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, but of the whole prophecy.
2. Because under the Amil system, the prophecy starts straightway. For example, the Rider on the white horse (6:2) was riding even as the book was being written, and war, scarcity, death and martyrdom were right there also. And of course the Rider still rides today, and war etc. are still right there with Him. And this will continue until Christ returns at the end of the age, the time of which no one knows (Matthew 24:36; 1 Thessalonians 5:2).

 

[tyndale1946]

Oh "Rude One"

Why Jesus is teaching us that the Reign of God / The KINGDOM gentlemen is the world as it would be if God were directly in charge... not the devil, it would be a place of right relationship. It would not be a world w/o pain or misery but simply a world that would be in good contact with all things. Conversely, the work of the Evil One is always to separate, divide and throw apart ---(Dia-bolical). So as delicately as I cay this, lets not go there OK.

EWF are you campaigning to be a moderator?... I'm here but I'm not joining this fray... But I'm watching... Reminds of the day when DHK and Old Regular use to duke it out on here... Could you please pass me some popcorn!... Brother Glen

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF are you campaigning to be a moderator?... I'm here but I'm not joining this fray... But I'm watching... Reminds of the day when DHK and Old Regular use to duke it out on here... Could you please pass me some popcorn!... Brother Glen

Heck no...., but I did stay at a Holiday Inn a time or two

 

[JamesL]

I think the emphasis is on the wrong phrase...

Looking more intently at what the "Kingdom of Heaven" is, brings to life what it means that it was "at hand"

 

[tyndale1946]

I think the emphasis is on the wrong phrase...

Looking more intently at what the "Kingdom of Heaven" is, brings to life what it means that it was "at hand"

I know I said I wasn't going to get into this discussion but I thought I would throw this in for good measure for what its worth.

Seems to me according to the Prophet Daniel if you identify the kings, wouldn't that also explain when the Kingdom Of Heaven was at hand?... Brother Glen

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. -2Pe. 1.16

coming = Strong's G3952 Parousia

For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. -2 Pe. 1.17, 18

This is not about the incarnation as you stated, but the transfiguration. As I told you before, inspired interpretation is always the best way to go.

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

I know I said I wasn't going to get into this discussion but I thought I would throw this in for good measure for what its worth.

Seems to me according to the Prophet Daniel if you identify the kings, wouldn't that also explain when the Kingdom Of Heaven was at hand?... Brother Glen

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Unfortunately that would not work for kyredneck either since he already stated in another thread that the ten kings (symbolized by ten horns) in Revelation were Germanic tribes that existed after John's day.

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

Revelation 1:1. 'The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants-- things which must shortly take place.'
Revelation 1:3. 'Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep the things written in it; for the time is near' [or 'at hand'].

These verses may present problems to premillennialists, but they must answer for themselves. They present no problem to the Amil, because
1. Neither of them speaks of the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, but of the whole prophecy.
2. Because under the Amil system, the prophecy starts straightway. For example, the Rider on the white horse (6:2) was riding even as the book was being written, and war, scarcity, death and martyrdom were right there also. And of course the Rider still rides today, and war etc. are still right there with Him. And this will continue until Christ returns at the end of the age, the time of which no one knows (Matthew 24:36; 1 Thessalonians 5:2).

I think your comments are very accurate, and not all Premillennialists are Dispensationalists or even Futurists necessarily. Those are side issues.

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

Even J. Stuart Russell, otherwise a very consistent Preterist, did not try to explain away Revelation 20.

 

[tyndale1946]

Unfortunately that would not work for kyredneck either since he already stated in another thread that the ten kings (symbolized by ten horns) in Revelation were Germanic tribes that existed after John's day.

I know I'm looking into that too... Also reading the history of the kings that are mentioned in Daniel... Haven't decided to my satisfaction... One says one thing and another says another thing and on and on... Have many resources at disposal but at this time the juries still out... I'll pop in every now and then, if I've a mind to... Until then... I'm still watching and eating popcorn... Brother Glen

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

The ten kings in Daniel are obviously the same ten kings in Revelation. John specifically states that the ten kings had not received authority as kings in his day. Even if that was prior to A.D. 70, it has not happened yet.

 

[kyredneck]

Looking more intently at what the "Kingdom of Heaven" is, brings to life what it means that it was "at hand"

17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. Ro 14

10 Wherefore, brethren, give the more diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never stumble:
11 for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1

Yes, "brings to life what it means" to those that have committed to their personal sanctification. "If ye do these things, ye shall never stumble". Why? Because "the joy of the Lord is your strength". This has to be experienced, it's not something one can read or hear about and know what it means.

But there is much more to be said of 'the kingdom'.

 

[kyredneck]

kyredneck either since he already stated in another thread that the ten kings (symbolized by ten horns) in Revelation were Germanic tribes that existed after John's day.

Yes, here:

https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/spiritual-interpretation-pt5.104635/page-7#post-2314776

How do we know this? Because that's the way it happened. Prophecy is almost never understood until after the fact:

"In the New Testament prophecies are not made to point to facts, but facts to point back to prophecies." Alfred Edersheim

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

Yes, here:

https://www.baptistboard.com/threads/spiritual-interpretation-pt5.104635/page-7#post-2314776

How do we know this? Because that's the way it happened. Prophecy is almost never understood until after the fact:

"In the New Testament prophecies are not made to point to facts, but facts to point back to prophecies." Alfred Edersheim

I agree with you. I think tyndale1946 was alluding to the passage from Daniel, "In the days of these kings..." In other words, if those kings had not yet received authority to reign in John's day, the kingdom could not have been set up in A.D. 70.

 

[tyndale1946]

I agree with you. I think tyndale1946 was alluding to the passage from Daniel, "In the days of these kings..." In other words, if those kings had not yet received authority to reign in John's day, the kingdom could not have been set up in A.D. 70.

The jury has returned and I don't know about you brethren... but I have been singing about the kingdom ever since I joined the church... I will post this and go back to eating my popcorn... Brother Glen

I Love Thy Kingdom, Lord"
by Timothy Dwight, 1752-1817
1. I love Thy kingdom, Lord,
The house of Thine abode,
The Church our blest Redeemer saved
With His own precious blood.

2. I love Thy Church, O God,
Her walls before Thee stand,
Dear as the apple of Thine eye
And graven on Thy hand.

3. Should I with scoffers join
Her altars to abuse?
No! Better far my tongue were dumb,
My hand its skill should lose.

4. For her my tears shall fall,
For her my prayers ascend,
To her my cares and toils be given
Till toils and cares shall end.

5. Beyond my highest joy
I prize her heavenly ways
Her sweet communion, solemn vows,
Her hymns of love and praise.

6. Jesus, Thou Friend Divine,
Our Savior and our King,
Thy hand from every snare and foe
Shall great deliverance bring.

7. Sure as Thy truth shall last,
To Zion shall be given
The brightest glories earth can yield
And brighter bliss of heaven.

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

The jury has returned and I don't know about you brethren... but I have been singing about the kingdom ever since I joined the church... I will post this and go back to eating my popcorn... Brother Glen

I Love Thy Kingdom, Lord"
by Timothy Dwight, 1752-1817
1. I love Thy kingdom, Lord,
The house of Thine abode,
The Church our blest Redeemer saved
With His own precious blood.

2. I love Thy Church, O God,
Her walls before Thee stand,
Dear as the apple of Thine eye
And graven on Thy hand.

3. Should I with scoffers join
Her altars to abuse?
No! Better far my tongue were dumb,
My hand its skill should lose.

4. For her my tears shall fall,
For her my prayers ascend,
To her my cares and toils be given
Till toils and cares shall end.

5. Beyond my highest joy
I prize her heavenly ways
Her sweet communion, solemn vows,
Her hymns of love and praise.

6. Jesus, Thou Friend Divine,
Our Savior and our King,
Thy hand from every snare and foe
Shall great deliverance bring.

7. Sure as Thy truth shall last,
To Zion shall be given
The brightest glories earth can yield
And brighter bliss of heaven.

Sing Scripture as we are commanded (Eph. 5.19). You won't be an Amillennialist unless you have a commentary for everyone who walks in the doors of the place where your church meets.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Kingdom of Heaven, in the person of the King, certainly was "at hand." Near. In close proximity.

Anyone who has ever been aboard a Navy ship when was there in the person of Jesus, and the Captain comes up the gang plank will hear "Antrim aboard" over the 1mc. "Antrim" is the name of the ship, not the Captain. He is the embodiment of the ship.

Same with the Kingdom. Where Jesus is, the Kingdom is.

the Kingdom of God was there in the Person of Jesus, and His body here on earth is where the Kingdomis growing and expanding outward since that time!

 

[Yeshua1]

Not according to Strong's.

It is the unveiling of Jesus, the time when he returns to earth in His physical glorified form, to be seen by all upon the earth of that time!

 

[tyndale1946]

Sing Scripture as we are commanded (Eph. 5.19). You won't be an Amillennialist unless you have a commentary for everyone who walks in the doors of the place where your church meets.

Then what are you going to do with these scriptures, that says we are?... What did God give his Son to save and deliver?... Brother Glen

I Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

Then what are you going to do with these scriptures, that says we are?... What did God give his Son to save and deliver?... Brother Glen

I Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

His church