The Knowledge of God

[Winman]

That's funny you use Romans 10:17 in the context of Gospel preaching here, and when I used it to prove faith doesn't come from us, you stated Romans 10:17 was not in the context of the Gospel to the lost.

But now it is all of a sudden in a context of Gospel preaching to the lost?

Go figure.

Faith comes from where? You? Nope. Or from hearing the Words of Christ? Yes. It certainly does not come from us. It came from His Word.

God does the speaking, we have to do the HEARING.

Luke 8:18 Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

Jesus warned his disciples to be careful what they hear. This makes no sense unless they had control over what they chose to listen to, and what they refused to listen to.

And Jesus shows how grace works, to those who will hear God's word and believe it, more will be given. But to those who do not believe, even that which was given them (revelation) shall be taken away.

 

[DHK]

That's funny you use Romans 10:17 in the context of Gospel preaching here, and when I used it to prove faith doesn't come from us, you stated Romans 10:17 was not in the context of the Gospel to the lost.

But now it is all of a sudden in a context of Gospel preaching to the lost?

Go figure.

Faith comes from where? You? Nope. Or from hearing the Words of Christ? Yes. It certainly does not come from us. It came from His Word.

Faith comes from hearing the Word of God. If one never hears the message of the gospel he can never be saved. We cannot look at the Bible as a supernatural book that shoots out darts of magical faith arrows striking people and knocking them down with words of faith. It doesn't work that way.
Faith comes from the hearing of the Word; that is from comprehension of the message. They must understand why Christ died for their sins. Why someone had to pay the penalty for their crimes, and why their sins is a crime against God. In other words they must understand what the gospel message is all about. That is the "hearing" part.

 

[preacher4truth]

Faith comes from hearing the Word of God. If one never hears the message of the gospel he can never be saved. We cannot look at the Bible as a supernatural book that shoots out darts of magical faith arrows striking people and knocking them down with words of faith. It doesn't work that way.
Faith comes from the hearing of the Word; that is from comprehension of the message. They must understand why Christ died for their sins. Why someone had to pay the penalty for their crimes, and why their sins is a crime against God. In other words they must understand what the gospel message is all about. That is the "hearing" part.

Nope. You left out a word purposely. It comes by hearing. And that of hearing the Word of Christ. Christs Word is life and the faith comes from His Word, not within you.

I take note you won't and can't deny that you now accept Romans 10:17 as being Gospel and salvific in context, whereas in times past you argued it wasn't to prove a point. But then in another thread (here) you change it back to what it really is.

Now you leave out a word to be right. Amazing.

 

[Amy.G]

Nope. You left out a word purposely. It comes by hearing. And that of hearing the Word of Christ. Christs Word is life and the faith comes from His Word, not within you.

I take note you won't and can't deny that you now accept Romans 10:17 as being Gospel and salvific in context, whereas in times past you argued it wasn't to prove a point. But then in another thread (here) you change it back to what it really is.

Now you leave out a word to be right. Amazing.

Now P4T, didn't you just receive a beautiful NASB for Christmas? What does it say?

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word [fn]of Christ.


fn: (10:17) Or, concerning Christ



You are apparently not a scholar, so......silence!:laugh: (JK :saint

 

[preacher4truth]

Now P4T, didn't you just receive a beautiful NASB for Christmas? What does it say?

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word [fn]of Christ.


fn: (10:17) Or, concerning Christ



You are apparently not a scholar, so......silence!:laugh: (JK :saint

I forgot to use my "New Age" version. :laugh:

...but the word "by" the Word of Christ qualifies from where it comes.

 

[Amy.G]

I forgot to use my "New Age" version. :laugh:

...but the word "by" the Word of Christ qualifies from where it comes.

Did you read the footnote? It means "concerning Christ". But I'm not going to beat you over the head with it. :tongue3:

I love my NASB too. I use the Key Word Study Bible.

 

[DHK]

Nope. You left out a word purposely. It comes by hearing. And that of hearing the Word of Christ. Christs Word is life and the faith comes from His Word, not within you.

I take note you won't and can't deny that you now accept Romans 10:17 as being Gospel and salvific in context, whereas in times past you argued it wasn't to prove a point. But then in another thread (here) you change it back to what it really is.

Now you leave out a word to be right. Amazing.

I didn't purposely leave out any word. I type most of my posts using references and Scripture from memory. Either way the verse has an emphasis on hearing. Hearing what? Hearing the word of God.

Faith is confidence. It is confidence in the word of another. I have confidence in the word of a cab driver that he will take me where I ask him to take me (like the airport), and not to the landfill outside the city. I have faith, confidence in his words. I put my salvation in his hands. He will either deliver me safely to the airport in one piece or perhaps he will kidnap me and take me to another place of the city and dispose of me in some untimely matter. He said he would take me to the airport as I requested. I am putting my faith in his word. My physical salvation could be at stake here. The object of my faith in this case is the cab driver and his promise to me.

The object of my faith spiritually is Jesus Christ and his promises to me. He has promised me salvation. He is God and both God and God's promises are perfect and infallible. I don't have to worry about an untimely death or even a spiritual one. I know that if I put my trust in him he will give me eternal life. I will become a member of his family with all the rights and privileges thereto, meaning an heir of God and a joint heir with Jesus Christ.

Salvation is by faith. Sola fide.

 

[preacher4truth]

Salvation is by faith. Sola fide.

I think you misunderstand and misrepresent sola fide because of not understanding sola gratia.

- Peace

 

[preacher4truth]

Did you read the footnote? It means "concerning Christ". But I'm not going to beat you over the head with it. :tongue3:

I love my NASB too. I use the Key Word Study Bible.

Cool. Mine has no footnote though, just some references in it. But I do really like this NASB version of Scripture!

 

[Skandelon]

I think you misunderstand and misrepresent sola fide because of not understanding sola gratia.

- Peace

Actually it appears you dismiss "sola fide" (i.e. faith has nothing to do with my salvation) because of your misunderstanding of "sola gratia."

 

[preacher4truth]

Actually it appears you dismiss "sola fide" (i.e. faith has nothing to do with my salvation) because of your misunderstanding of "sola gratia."

You'd actually be incorrect, I don't "dismiss" sola fide, I just know "fide" doesn't save me. It's not that I dismiss it, it's that I know its place. No need to say I dismiss faith, you're off track there and completely misunderstand, no need to assume.

Things aren't always how they "appear." You should know this after studying Scripture.

:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Skandelon]

Let me ask you a very simple question P4T: Can one be saved without faith? Yes or no?

 

[preacher4truth]

Let me ask you a very simple question P4T: Can one be saved without faith? Yes or no?

Of course not. But this doesn't make faith the part that saves. It's Grace that saved us.

Again, I don't dismiss faith. No need to add to my words here. You just misunderstand them.

 

[Skandelon]

Of course not. But this doesn't make faith the part that saves. It's Grace that saved us.

Again, I don't dismiss faith. No need to add to my words here. You just misunderstand them.

So when you said "faith has NOTHING to do with my salvation" you meant that grace is accessed through faith but it is only the grace that saves. Got it.

Enough said. I'd just avoid using the phrase "faith has nothing to do with salvation" in the future because that seems very different than "we are saved by grace through faith."

 

[preacher4truth]

So when you said "faith has NOTHING to do with my salvation" you meant that grace is accessed through faith but it is only the grace that saves. Got it.

Enough said. I'd just avoid using the phrase "faith has nothing to do with salvation" in the future because that seems very different than "we are saved by grace through faith."

That would be correct. Now you understand my statement. Like I told you, you took it out of context. It's not as simple as it appears.

 

[Skandelon]

That would be correct. Now you understand my statement. Like I told you, you took it out of context. It's not as simple as it appears.

There is no context in which that statement is correct. Enough said. I'm done with this merry-go-round.

Blessings.

 

[preacher4truth]

There is no context in which that statement is correct. Enough said. I'm done with this merry-go-round.

Blessings.

OK. But remember I was the one speaking and defending in that context of which you quoted me, and I know what I meant, and the context qualified it.

 

[Skandelon]

Your faith has saved you, go in peace.

 

[convicted1]

It IS the new birth and it takes place BEFORE faith in that verse.

Whoever BELIEVES (presently) HAS BEEN (in the past) born of God.

Whoever is eating HAS BEEN sitting at the table. That sentence tells us that sitting at the table PRECEDED eating.

Look back a page.
I John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is (in the Greek literally HAS BEEN) born of him.

Is John saying that one is doing righteousness BEFORE he was born of God here? NO! NOBODY denies that.

This is the EXACT same language used by the EXACT same author only a FEW paragraphs earlier.

One more time literally just a handful of sentences earlier.
I John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is (in the Greek literally HAS BEEN) born of God, and knoweth God.

Which comes first there, Willis? Loving or being born of God??

Being born of God of course! NOBODY reputable argues otherwise.

So in I John 5:1 John is saying that just like the new birth precedes righteousness in 2:29 and just like the new birth precedes loving in 4:7 the new birth precedes faith in 5:1.

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God...

Okay, I'm gonna ask you a "point blank" question. Can someone be regenerated for years, and not be saved?

 

[Luke2427]

Okay, I'm gonna ask you a "point blank" question. Can someone be regenerated for years, and not be saved?

In do not know.

I doubt anyone does.

That is beside the point. The point is that the Bible CLEARLY teaches that regeneration precedes faith.

How long before it precedes faith is ANOTHER discussion.

At this point you just need to cede that the Bible says it does.