The Author, Arthur Custance forced me to rethink my idea of the principle of Sola Gratia, by grace alone.
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/Leaven.html
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/Leaven.html
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The Leaven of Synergism
- Thread starter Earth Wind and Fire
- Start date
Why indeed.
Helped to move me to more of a monergistic stance
That is not an answer.
Look, you posted this article, and you say you have moved even more to a monergistic view. OK, please explain why men need to know and believe the gospel to be saved.
Why doesn't God just save men? Why is it necessary for men to preach the gospel if salvation is 100% of God? Why do men need to hear and believe the gospel? Why doesn't God just save them as they are?
Let me ask you a question, did you have to believe on Jesus Christ to be saved?
If you answer yes, isn't that involving you in the equation? If your view is correct, why do you have to do anything at all?
Please explain.
His post seemed to me to be in agreement rather than opposition.
The question should be posed to Martin Luther Im thinkin.
Salvation os totally of and from the Lord, as he decided in His good pleasure to reddem and save us, but in that, he also prdained that a sinner that will get saved will hear and respond to the message of Christ, and he grants to those to respond and get saved the means to do such, so even that is from Him!
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
When God appeared unto me and I saw my sin as God saw it, and I saw Christ in all his beauty I could do nothing else but believe.
But why do you have to believe? If salvation is 100% of God, why do you have to do anything at all?
Calvinists claim that believing is a work. Why must you perform the work of believing to be saved if salvation is 100% of God?
Calvinists love to use the raising of Lazarus as their example of regeneration. Did Lazarus have to believe for Jesus to raise him from the dead?
So why do you have to believe on Jesus to be saved? Why doesn't God just make you saved without performing the work (in the Reformed view) of believing?
See, you Calvinists also believe in synergism, you believe you must believe to be saved. That is YOU DOING SOMETHING to be saved in addition to what God does.
So why do you have to believe to be saved?
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
Believing in Christ at the moment of salvation is as natural as taking your next breath to the one God has revealed His Son too. Although a doctor would say you have to breath to live but in reality it's a natural reaction.
No it's not. You don't have to tell a newborn baby to breathe, but the scriptures tell us over and over again to believe.
When the Philipian jailer asked what he must do to be saved, why did Paul tell him to believe on Jesus if God does it all in salvation?
Acts 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Why did Paul tell the Philipian jailer he must believe (which you consider a work)?
Why didn't Paul tell him to do NOTHING at all, and if God had chosen him to salvation, God would regenerate him and he would be saved?
Why did Paul have to preach to the Philipian jailer if God saves monergistically?
God seems to have a lot less problem with men being involved in salvation than Calvinists do. :laugh:
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
The bible also tells us to keep the ten commandments but has any person born of woman other than Christ ever kept the ten commandments ? No. When I look at the law I see my inability to keep the law. When I am told I must believe and repent I say Lord help my unbelief.
Why are you changing the subject?
Why did Paul tell the Philipian jailer he had to believe to be saved? Why does man have to do anything at all if salvation is 100% of the Lord and man is not involved? Why did Paul have to preach to him?
Like I said, you Calvinists seem far more afraid of man's involvement than God does.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
Heb 13: 20-21 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead the Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, WORKING IN YOU THAT IS WELLPLEASING IN HIS SIGHT, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever, AMEN. Winman if you only knew the gospel in your heart you could understand the above scripture.
Tom Butler
New Member
At the same time that God chose the objects of His electing grace, He also ordained all the means necessary to accomplish their salvation. The scripture is clear. Salvation is by grace through faith. Faith comes by hearing the word of God. God makes certain that his elect are sent the gospel. For instance God sent Philip to the elect eunuch.
God has thus made inseparable election and missions. Paul himself said he was granted endurance so that the elect might be saved. Paul himself said God was pleased to save sinners through the "foolishness" of preaching.
The word of God is the Holy Spirit's instrument in regeneration (John 3:5)
Lazarus is a good example. Lazarus was dead. Four days dead. He could not hear, much less obey. Yet Jesus shouted, "Lazarus, come forth!" Why?
The life-giving power accompanied Jesus words. Lazarus heard. And came forth.
It is our part to preach the gospel. It is God's part to make the dead alive.
Go back to the Old Testament to the valley of the dry bones in Ezekiel 37. The dry bones are like the state of sinners. Lifeless, yet preaching to them was not in vain.
In the final analysis, whether we understand all this or not, all of us are commanded to preach the gospel. To the spiritually dead.
And, whether we understand it or not, we Calvinists are commanded to pray for the lost. Jesus himself prayed for the security of believers, even though that security was assured. (John 17) He also prayed for the restoration of His former glory with the Father. Was that an uncertain thing?
Prayer, as well as preaching, is a means of God in carrying out His will.
Do I understand it? Not completely. Do I believe the scripture teaches it? Absolutely.
God has thus made inseparable election and missions. Paul himself said he was granted endurance so that the elect might be saved. Paul himself said God was pleased to save sinners through the "foolishness" of preaching.
The word of God is the Holy Spirit's instrument in regeneration (John 3:5)
Lazarus is a good example. Lazarus was dead. Four days dead. He could not hear, much less obey. Yet Jesus shouted, "Lazarus, come forth!" Why?
The life-giving power accompanied Jesus words. Lazarus heard. And came forth.
It is our part to preach the gospel. It is God's part to make the dead alive.
Go back to the Old Testament to the valley of the dry bones in Ezekiel 37. The dry bones are like the state of sinners. Lifeless, yet preaching to them was not in vain.
In the final analysis, whether we understand all this or not, all of us are commanded to preach the gospel. To the spiritually dead.
And, whether we understand it or not, we Calvinists are commanded to pray for the lost. Jesus himself prayed for the security of believers, even though that security was assured. (John 17) He also prayed for the restoration of His former glory with the Father. Was that an uncertain thing?
Prayer, as well as preaching, is a means of God in carrying out His will.
Do I understand it? Not completely. Do I believe the scripture teaches it? Absolutely.
Pretty simple, the means God chose is SYNERGISM. God doesn't just zap someone walking down the street, he first sends a person that is already saved to preach the gospel to them. Then that person has to listen to the gospel and believe it to be saved. God chooses people to participate in salvation, that is synergism.
This is the only argument you guys got, you must try to smear your opponent, try to claim they are not saved, and cannot understand scripture.
Only other simple-minded folks fall for this type of false argument.
God has chosen for people to participate in salvation. He doesn't just zap you alive, a person has to come and preach the gospel to you, and you must willingly believe to be saved. God does not forcibly compel you as Calvinism falsely teaches, man must willingly CHOOSE God.
Pro 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
Your problem is that I DO understand the scriptures, that is why I will never be a Calvinist.
Not the alien sinner though...he doesn't participate. He doesn't hear the gospel.