The Leaven of Synergism

[Herald]

Many times the "pejorative label' of synergist is used to imply that "folks like me" think that we some how earn or merit the Grace of God.

When you advance the discussion to the theologies involved, and not the individuals, the terms become vitally important. Synergism, as a theological system, does teach that man cooperates with God in salvation. I have been excoriated on this board for having the temerity to suggest that Synergistic theology falls into one of two systems, Semi-Pelaganism or Arminianism. The two systems are kissing cousins. The easiest way to point out the difference between Semi-Pelagianism and Arminianism is to look at their view of sin. Semi-Pelagianism rejects original sin. The fall of Adam is not binding upon all mankind as far as guilt from sin. Each man is born as a tabula rasa, a blank slate. According to Semi-Pelagianism, man can live a life without sin and therefore merit salvation apart from Christ. This is true according to Semi-Pelagianism in the abstract. In reality even the most ardent Semi-Pelagians, like Cassian, believed all men sinned, although he still denied original sin. Arminianism teaches that Adam's sin did result in The Fall, but only that man has a propensity to sin. Like Semi-Pelagianism, Arminianism denies original sin. Instead of all men being guilty of sin, all men have received a sin nature. But this sin nature does not result in being guilty of sin. It is only a disposition towards sin. Prevenient grace allows man to resist this disposition and not sin. Even if a person does sin prevenient grace allows them to seek God's forgiveness without any work of the Spirit (regeneration) first having to take place. If more Synergists were honest (such as yourself) they would not bristle at the terms, even if they do not represent 100% of what they believe. Calvinism does not represent 100% of what Mongergistic Baptists believe, but it is accurate when describing soteriological beliefs.

 

[webdog]

I don't believe Christ would have ever died a natural death. We die because death is by sin, no man could take His life, he had to lay it down freely by his own power.

That is denying His humanity, not to mention speculation. We need to go by the facts, He suffered, bled, hungered, thirsted and died.

 

[quantumfaith]

I don't believe Christ would have ever died a natural death. We die because death is by sin, no man could take His life, he had to lay it down freely by his own power.

Don't think I would agree with this. Christ was embodied in the physical, just as we are. Yes he did "willingly lay down" his physical life...there is so much rapped up in this. Because He was also God, He could have done many things, but He was obedient to the Will of the Father on this matter. I don't see anything to suggest that Christ would not have had the same physical properties as do we until after his resurrection. There are many questions about the hypostasis, for anyone to claim they know and understand all things regarding such, is mere hubris.

 

[Yeshua1]

That is denying His humanity, not to mention speculation. We need to go by the facts, He suffered, bled, hungered, thirsted and died.

NONE except for jesus were born in an innocent state, as we were from the very womb itself estranged from God, as we are all sinners who need to be saved by death of Jesus!

IF Jesus came a natural birth, either he was a sinner, or else all of us are born innocent , and become sinners and away from God ONLY when we choose to be, so there would be some like Jesus who chose not to ever sin, so could be saved by their own works!

NOT a biblical position!

 

[Yeshua1]

Wrong. The Bible says He was human in every way we are but without sin.

he was God in human flesh, is that like we all are?

He had no sin nature residing within Him, are we all without that also?

 

[Yeshua1]

Baloney, I showed you Romans 1:3 that said he was "made" of the seed of David according to the flesh.

See, if you believe all men are inherit a sin nature through physical birth, then you have a problem believing Romans 1:3 for what it literally says.

Of course, if you understand that men are NOT born with a sin nature, but develop a sin nature when they willingly choose to sin, then it is not a problem to believe Jesus was born with the same nature as men.

Original Sin is false doctrine and just leads to more and more error. This is why the Catholics had to invent the Immaculate Conception, to explain how Jesus could be born of Mary without inheriting sin. So, they teach Mary was born sinless by some special grace given her.

This is why the Catholics baptize babies.

And the biggest error of all, this is where the doctrine of Total Inability originated.

So, I understand that no Calvinist will ever let go of Original Sin, without OS Calvinism would collapse like the house of cards it really is.

Either jesus was born sinless, and he alone was only human ever born such state, or else we all are born like wise, and are not sinner until we choose tosin, so therecould be those who could save themselves by obeying the law as Jesus chose to do in your system!

NONE can be justified by keeping the Law, for even if they did it perfectly, STILL have sin debt owed to God for being found in Adam!

 

[webdog]

he was God in human flesh, is that like we all are?

He had no sin nature residing within Him, are we all without that also?

We're not God, but that matters not in Him being human in every manner we are without having sinned.

 

[webdog]

NONE except for jesus were born in an innocent state, as we were from the very womb itself estranged from God, as we are all sinners who need to be saved by death of Jesus!

Not a biblical position.

IF Jesus came a natural birth, either he was a sinner, or else all of us are born innocent , and become sinners and away from God ONLY when we choose to be, so there would be some like Jesus who chose not to ever sin, so could be saved by their own works

!What a bunch of theological trail mix!

NOT a biblical position!

Indeed!

 

[percho]

I don't believe Christ would have ever died a natural death. We die because death is by sin, no man could take His life, he had to lay it down freely by his own power.

If Jesus had not been obedient unto death even the death of the cross, would that not have been sin and would have brought to him death?

Where it is said in Hebrews 12:4 that ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Isn't that stating what Jesus did in the garden the night of the day he died?

Was he striving against being obedient unto death even the death of the cross?

That is why I say the word teaches Jesus was the Son of God, the Christ come in the flesh by the water and by the blood.

You will find the phrase Son of God 47 times, You will not find God the Son once.

The living speaking God, and God was the Word, sent forth his Son born of woman, born under the law.

And yes I believe Jesus to be God, self emptied of glory in a Son born of woman.