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The LILAC of Arminian and Non-Cal Theology
- Thread starter preacher4truth
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preacher4truth
Active Member
EWF was right! All I see is "This message is hidden because (insert 1 of 3 names here) is on your ignore list."
What a wonderful feature! :laugh: :thumbsup:
What a wonderful feature! :laugh: :thumbsup:
quantumfaith
Active Member
Yes but you can still view it. One name has been on my ignore list for a long time, but I still enjoy reading when in the mood.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Here is an interesting link that has a few things to say concerning Arminian and non-cal theology, including LILAC.
http://www.prca.org/standard_bearer/volume74/1997oct15.html#Lilac
http://www.prca.org/standard_bearer/volume74/1997oct15.html#Lilac
Yes but the real key to it is to never again be bothered to read the commentary, which I find disturbing & toxic....therefore it is my own choise to NOT READ what I know will annoy me. Great feature in all! :thumbs:
quantumfaith
Active Member
Well, brother, my goal is not to annoy you, or actually anyone else for that matter. Despite our differences, I hold no animosity. I respect your position(s) and simply ask that you return the favor, which I fell YOU do.
preacher4truth
Active Member
:thumbsup:
I used to debate theology much more when I first arrived on this board. But I noticed quickly that most of them deteriorate into a cal v non cal debate regardless of the doctrine. So I have avoided many of them. and while there is most likely some who hold to this crazy LILAC it is childish and snide (as the author of the op put it) to broad brush everyone non cal with this just because they do not hold to cal theology.
psalms109:31
Active Member
We can't place God in a box, that is why i don't like acrostics. It places God in a box and everything that God says has to be placed some where in that box and brings people to see all scripture that way.
I know that the TULIP came from, something that came from a fight against a Arminian points, but two wrongs don't make a right.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Then why even preach and give preaching points? That too would be placing "God in a box" and would be bringing people to see Scripture in that way as well. I'm simply applying your misnomer to another method of expressing God.
I'd dare say that the believers/theologians who made these acrostics had a much more solid grasp on Biblical truth than most or perhaps any of us here. Their acrostics weren't exhaustive, nor were they meant to be, nor were they placing God in a box. To say that is just a copout.
Both acrostics examine the teachings of "Calvinism" and "Non-Calvinism" or "Arminianism." Neither of these is exhaustive, yet both are starting points that reflect the true teachings of each theology.
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psalms109:31
Active Member
There is nothing wrong with placing points in a part of a scripture, but that does not mean all scripture teaches the same thing. We see TULIP as scripture as do I, but there is more to God than what the TULIP can provide.
preacher4truth
Active Member
That's what I just said. There is nothing wrong with an acrostic, and they don't place God in a box any more than a sermon does. To say they do is to miss the point and use a copout. Both acrostics reflect the teachings in each system.
How you draw the distinction that 'there is nothing wrong with places points in a part of Scripture, but that doesn't mean all scripture teaches the same thing' from what was said here is beyond me. This is nowhere implied.
Correct on your last point about TULIP. There is more to God than TULIP as there is more to God than the last sermon you heard, this doesn't make either invalid. There is also much more than LILAC, but it is reflective of erroneous teachings within their system.
- Peace
psalms109:31
Active Member
I have not seen anyone believe in the LILAC here on the BB. I have not seen one say I saved myself apart from God.
quantumfaith
Active Member
glfredrick
New Member
Share brother! Inform us! You are not only given a chance, we are ASKING that you give a positive statement of your own doctrines!
Exactly, but when you cannot actually debate the issue you must misrepresent it so you can stick to arguments you can deal with. It is called an informal fallacy and nothing more than a debate tactic rather than an honest discussion.
preacher4truth
Active Member
I have seen it, and so have many others.
One doesn't have to come out and say "I saved myself" for it to apply. It's how ones theology reflects these things, not in coming right out in making the statement word for word. So, we go by what their theology says.
For instance, those in Matthew 7:21-22 claiming their works, would have never stated "I am saving myself" but their theology shows differently. They were exercising a works based religion, not a relationship with Christ. As a matter of fact, it would be accurate to say these types did claim Christ, yet they trusted in themselves and their works, yet remained in their sins, because their sins were still being imputed on them; Matthew 7:23.
One can express belief in "unconditional election" in their teachings having never heard the term used in an acrostic or otherwise. The same can be said for other points of TULIP.
One can also believe in "Limited Depravity" from "LILAC" without knowing the term, yet they reflect it in their teachings. The same applies for the balance of "LILAC."
One who rejects the truth of OSAS may not know the term, but believe they will or can lose their salvation. This presents several problems theologically. One, they aren't truly trusting Christ alone, though they would argue they are, and secondly, no matter how much theological acumen they possess, they still have a works based religion. Thus the term "Carnal Security" would apply to them.
Another consideration is "I elect Christ." There are many who place their faith in a prayer said, or in "they chose Christ." This is not accurate, it is God who chose and God who saves alone. The Scriptures teach dogmatically He calls, elects (chooses). Yet I see many people point to a prayer they said when asked about their salvation. Therefore "I Elect God" applies to them. By the way, there are those within the church who need to be evangelized as well as those without.
Thus, one doesn't need to come out and make a statement such as "Limited Depravity" or "Carnal Security" for these to be their true beliefs when such beliefs are reflected within their theology (teachings). So, one can say "I trust Christ alone, period!" from here to eternity, but the real truth comes out in their teachings and leanings theologically.
Lastly, I have addressed each and every one of your points, yet you fail to show me even one point of LILAC that isn't reflective of non-Calvinist theology with proof they don't teach this, or even a mere rebuttal of any point! Perhaps you cannot rebutt them?
You've also alluded that no non-Calvinist believes any of the points. This is blatantly false, as the LILAC accurately represents the theologies within these camps. I've demonstrated above how this is true and exactly how it applies.
Here is a link that expresses this in more detail. Should I expect a copout excuse that the link isn't "pure Bible?" If that is your point, then please lose the Spurgeon quote on your signature under the same principle.
Here it is:
http://www.prca.org/standard_bearer/volume74/1997oct15.html#Lilac
- Peace
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glfredrick
New Member
So far, given a chance, no one has actually shared anything remotly like a set of doctrines that they hold except Calvinists.
We are accused of "placing God in a box" by the acrostic that is most commonly used to portray our doctrines of soteriology. I find that rather short-sighted, but if that is how you see it, that is fine.
Like my plea to Mandym, PLEASE SHARE YOUR OWN DOCTRINE and let's set aside the cop out that you do not have one because that "puts God in a box." You have one or else what are you debating against?
preacher4truth
Active Member
I'm coming to the conclusion he cannot do this. He may be newer to the faith, so I will lend the benefit of doubt to him.
I say this because one recently stated that Jesus was called a glutton and drunk, and he argued this was nowhere in the Bible (or however he worded it). I gave the passage, he made an adjustment, and I thought to myself this is so well known. So I assume he is then new to the faith not knowing this basic accusation against Christ.
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