Originally posted by Lacy Evans:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DeaconLew:
Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
This "angel" was the same angel as in v. 30 - God himself.
The congregation of Jews that treked across the wilderness was a church. How many folks did God call to lead the church out of Egypt? One.
A man (Moses Father-in-law) being acted upon by God, told Pastor Moses that he needed to get help to preside over the folks. This was, indeed, the Lord's doing. The pattern is here in the OT. I will remind you, as a father, that God told Moses not to go beyond that patern that was shown him; neither should we.
I agree but I think that Christ himself follows the type of Moses moreso than any church pastor or apostle.
1 Corinthians 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Hebrews 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
Hebrews 9:19. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20. Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
22. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
23. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
24. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
3. Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
4. And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. </font>[/QUOTE]Br. Lacy,
It is indeed true that the angel in reference in Acts is God. To say that, somehow, clear scripture on the leading of millions of Jews through the wilderness by one man is not a picture to be followed is quite presumptuous. Of course they were lead by Jesus, Corinthians affirms that "...for they followed that spiritual rock and that rock was Christ..." In our example, again, entreating you as a father, I remind us that the OT is written for our admonition. We have one single solitary man leading millions across the wilderness. This one man established, by the grace of God, other men to help facilitate the administration of the people. These people, presumably Deacons and Elders, were given authority under Moses which was under God. This picture is clear.
The folks trying to deviate from this picture also suggest that one need not pay tithes, they suggest "gathering together in the name of Jesus" but don't suggest gathering together in the name of Jesus at a church. I know "eat the meat, spit out the bones" but there is too much poison in it. I know you know this, but rat poison is 99% nutritious. Does this mean we should consume any of it, "eat the meat?"
1 Peter 5
1. The elders which are among you I exhort...
2. ...taking the oversight thereof,
You pointed out the area of the verse that says "..neither being Lords over God's heritage..." I want to point out that they were to take the oversight. Meaning authority over. Why? Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the
rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
In truth the only offices that were ever established by the Holy Spirit in scripture is that of the bishop and deacon. What and if the elders referenced in 1 Peter were those that were converted long ago, while Peter was younger, that have just grown up in age?
Jesus said to Peter in John, "Lovest thou me... Feed my sheep." Without a doubt the sheep belong to Jesus, but the feeding of them was given to one.
Summing this up, plurality, as best as I can tell is necessitated based upon need; not the need of leadership, but the need of daily administration. So that the "Moses" of the various churches can "go up to mount" to recive of God.
As far as having to pay bills and write sermons, you should have counted the cost, I say this with tears and love. A great man of God said in a sermon that there are four things about a cricified man. His sermon was in relation to the pastoral ministry. He said a crucified man looks in one direction, holds on to nothing, has not future plans and is not comming back. Here is my explaination of these four things.
1.) A cruficied man looks in one direction:
If a man is called of God, he needs to do ONE thing and that's to preach. Maybe Pastors these days take on too many things. Have too many projects and no time to "go up to the mount." Looking in many directions he can go nowhere!
2.) A crucified man holds on to nothing:
All too often we are trying to have our cake and eat it too. And many preachers have a full time job and preach on the side as a hobby. Let go of the world and trust Christ. If God has promised to supply all your needs according to his riches in glory then what were you worried about! God didn't fail! Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently
lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
3.) A crucified man has no future plans:
He is not going up to be crucified at 3 and will be available for dinner at 5. Once his mind is made up, that's it. There is no room to quit! Why did you quit? You say the bills are piling up, why didn't you smite the river and say "Where is the LORD God of Elijah??" I am not a Pastor, and can not begin to imagine what exactly you were going through. But one of the qualifications of a pastor is one that ruleth his house well. I have a wife and three children at home. I am responsible for making sure my wife is happy and can perform the duties of raising and educating the children. My responsibility to encourage her to keep going and that I and, most importantly Jesus, is there to help in what ever capacity needed. I am responsible to pay the bills. If the bills get to a point where they can't be paid on time, I am to talk with the company, explaining my situation to them for two reasons 1.) to be honest before man and God and 2.) so my wife NEVER has to be burdened with more than she can bear. This sounds much like, although not the same, and leading a church. That's why it was there. A preacher should have not other plans but to see those to whom he is sent to minister, saved! Why did you start if all you were going to do was quit? Bob Jones Sr. is quoted to have said "The door of success, swings on the hinges of opposition." Not planning to succeed IS planning to fail.
4.) A crucified man is not coming back:
If your mind is made up, your mind is made up. Are you resolved, were you? I am not trying to be mean or ugly, but as Elihu said:
7 I said, Days should speak, and multitude of years should teach wisdom.
8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
9 Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgment.
10 Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion. (Job 32)
A crucified man is not coming back. There is no reason to turn back. God said "I will never leave thee nor forsake thee." Did you forget the exhortation of scritpture? Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
I do so want to be in the ministry. I see a need in the Negro community, particularly where my parents live in Oklahoma. I have prayed with tears, earnestly beseeching the Lord for an opportunity, if called, to preach there. I have conveyed these desires to my pastor and he, under the authority of God, has counseled me is some things that I need to work on. Since these are my plans, to minister in that area, I am resolved to do what ever it takes to be the most effective for Christ. Everyone called to minister should be.
You know that I love you, these words needed to be said.
Your brother and true yokefellow,
Lewis
