THE LORD IS…NOT WILLING THAT ANY OF YOU SHOULD PERISH

[Garrett20]

It is very clear that God desires that the whole world, every single person is saved and goes to heaven. And yet Christians like you are so opposed to this wonderful Gospel Truth! You are like Jonah and his response to the Lord

Tell this to people that lived in Noah’s day...

 

[SavedByGrace]

Acts 7:51 is a fit description of me as a natural man. I not only resisted, I rebelled after I was born-again. Never the less, God wants me to spend eternity in His presence and He got His way with me. I suspect my experience is not uncommon among His elect.

Praise God from Whom all blessings flow.

the point is that the Holy Spirit can and is resisted by both saved and unsaved people. The speech of Stephen is in the context of salvation, and the Jews present did resist the working of the Holy Spirit in them. Showing that they had "free wills", and there is no such thing as "irresistible grace"! Both Reformed errors.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Tell this to people that lived in Noah’s day...

Noah did!

 

[AustinC]

the point is that the Holy Spirit can and is resisted by both saved and unsaved people. The speech of Stephen is in the context of salvation, and the Jews present did resist the working of the Holy Spirit in them. Showing that they had "free wills", and there is no such thing as "irresistible grace"! Both Reformed errors.

sbw, you don't understand irresistible grace, therefore you imagine it teaches that sinners have no capacity to resist at all. This is not true. Any Reformed theology person will acknowledge that we fight against the Spirit. (Romans 7) What is meant by irresistible grace is that the person, chosen by God, cannot persist in resistance so that they die without believing. Their human will cannot be victorious over God's will.
Yet, you teach that human will conquers God's will. It is that teaching of yours to which I object. Human will cannot conquer God's Sovereign will. When God declares that something will be, humans cannot resist it. Read throughout all of scripture how God gives fore warning through the prophets to specific people and that warning happens. See how God clearly tells Nebuchadnezzar that he will be like an animal for 7 years and it takes place. See how God says a Persian King, Cyrus, would send Israel back to the land and it happened. See how God tells Paul that he would be bound in chains if he went to Jerusalem and it happened.
The will of God always prevails over the will of man. Therefore, when God declares that his adopted, chosen and elect person's have been known from before the foundation of the world, we believe it and acknowledge that God always prevails over man's natural desire to rebel and hide from God. God will seek out his elect, pursue them and prevail over their hard hearted wills. God wins. You, as a chosen child of God, could not not believe.

That is what irresistible grace means.

 

[AustinC]

Noah did!

To the entire world? Really? Second, if God willed that the entire world be saved, yet only Noah and his house were saved, then God failed.
That is the same conundrum you face with your teaching regarding 2 Peter 3:9.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Here is passage from John Calvin

Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one; as if he had said, that he will not be the Redeemer of one man only, but will die in order to deliver many from the condemnation of the curse. It must at the same time be observed, however, that by the words for you, as related by Luke — Christ directly addresses the disciples, and exhorts every believer to apply to his own advantage the shedding of blood Therefore, when we approach to the holy table, let us not only remember in general that the world has been redeemed by the blood of Christ, but let every one consider for himself that his own sins have been expiated, on Mark 14:24

time you put away your theology and accept what the Bible actually says. It is very obvious, even to Calvin as his comments on Mark 14:24 show, that Judas was part of those Jesus told that He was going to the cross to die for their sins. Whether your "theology" allows for this, means zilch, as the Word of God is ONLY Infallible and not what one believes!

Just to show that Calvin did not say that Christ died for the sins of Judas Iscariot. You are reading that in. It is very plain from his copious writings that Calvin did not believe in a General Redemption. By 'The whole human race, he did not mean every person who ever lived, but for a multitude 'that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages' (Revelation 7:9).

Also, I don't think it is possible to say whether or not Judas was present at the time of Christ's institution of the Lord's Supper, which took place 'as they were eating' (Matthew 26:26; Mark 14:22). It is also clear that it was 'during supper' (John 13:2) that the Lord Jesus gave Judas a morsel of bread dipped in vinegar (clearly not communion bread), after which he 'immediately went out' (John 13:30). It is not possible to know for certain whether this was before or after the words spoken in Luke 22:20, but I suspect that it was before.

 

[Dave G]

Tell this to people that lived in Noah’s day...

I agree.

As I see it, there must have been millions ( if not many more than that ) on earth by then, as many people seemed to have lived into their 700's, 800's and 900's.
That's a lot of children that people were having, and the Bible says that violence filled the earth.
So, if God loved each and every one of them, why did He only save Noah and his family?

Also, how long would it have taken Noah to preach to everyone in the world?
Centuries.

But God's word only says that Noah was a preacher of righteousness...not that he went everywhere preaching.

To the entire world? Really? Second, if God willed that the entire world be saved, yet only Noah and his house were saved, then God failed.

Agreed.
The Lord does not fail to do anything that He sets out to do:

Romans 9:19, Job 9:12, Job 42:2, Psalms 33:11, Psalms 115:3, Psalms 135:6, Isaiah 43:13, etc.

 

[SavedByGrace]

It is very plain from his copious writings that Calvin did not believe in a General Redemption. By 'The whole human race, he did not mean every person who ever lived, but for a multitude 'that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages'

maybe you should read what Calvin wrote on John 3:16

That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found inthe world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.

This language does not in any way restrict anything to only "the elect". "all indiscriminately" and "all men without exception", are UNIVERSAL terms meaning the entire human race, every single person! Otherwise Calvin would have said, "everyone without distinction".

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 6 am EST / 3 am PST

 

[SavedByGrace]

Also, I don't think it is possible to say whether or not Judas was present at the time of Christ's institution of the Lord's Supper, which took place 'as they were eating'

John Gill On Luke 22:21

with me on the table; and is an aggravation of his sin, that one that sat with him at his table, ate bread with him, and dipped his morsel in the same dish, should be the betrayer of him, according to the prophecy in Psalm 41:9 as well as describes and points at the person that should do this action, even one of his disciples; for which disciples, he had just now said, his body is given, and his blood is shed. The phrase, "with me", is left out in the Syriac and Persic versions. From Luke's account it appears most clearly, that Judas was not only at the passover, but at the Lord's supper, since this was said when both were over.

Matthew Henry On Luke 22:21

By placing this after the institution of the Lord's supper, though in Matthew and Mark it is placed before it, it seems plain that Judas did receive the Lord's supper, did eat of that bread and drink of that cup for, after the solemnity was over, Christ said, Behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. There have been those that have eaten bread with Christ and yet have betrayed him.

Jesus Christ is Almighty God, and would have known that Judas was to leave the room shortly after the Lord's Supper was given by Him. If He did not intend for Judas to eat the bread, and drink the wine, representing His body and blood, then surely to be very clear, He would have instituted the Supper after Judas had left the room. The fact that Judas not only took this very important Supper with Jesus and the 11, and was told by Jesus, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you...Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.", no doubt meant that Jesus' death also included Judas along with the other 11. It is only because of ones "theology", that objection would be made to the plain reading of Scripture.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 6 am EST / 3 am PST

Oh no, time the US wakes and people start to respond, it will be too late!

 

[SavedByGrace]

To the entire world? Really? Second, if God willed that the entire world be saved, yet only Noah and his house were saved, then God failed.
That is the same conundrum you face with your teaching regarding 2 Peter 3:9.

then you could say that God "failed" when the devil and his wicked angels rebelled against Him in heaven, and ever since then has been trying to destroy what God has created, and blinded millions to the Gospel of Jesus Christ! Your reasoning is theological and MOOT!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yet, you teach that human will conquers God's will

you guys do say a load of codswhallop!

 

[AustinC]

you guys do say a load of codswhallop!

You seem afraid to follow your own train of thought to its final conclusion.

 

[AustinC]

then you could say that God "failed" when the devil and his wicked angels rebelled against Him in heaven, and ever since then has been trying to destroy what God has created, and blinded millions to the Gospel of Jesus Christ! Your reasoning is theological and MOOT!

Only if Satan's will was greater than God's. But, we see in Job that Satan must still get approval from God. Therefore we realize that God ordained the willful rebellion of Satan and the fallen angels. They could not have rebelled had God not allowed it.

Yet you teach that human will is greater than God's will. Such a teaching is false and thus I find your assertions false.

 

[AustinC]

John Gill On Luke 22:21

with me on the table; and is an aggravation of his sin, that one that sat with him at his table, ate bread with him, and dipped his morsel in the same dish, should be the betrayer of him, according to the prophecy in Psalm 41:9 as well as describes and points at the person that should do this action, even one of his disciples; for which disciples, he had just now said, his body is given, and his blood is shed. The phrase, "with me", is left out in the Syriac and Persic versions. From Luke's account it appears most clearly, that Judas was not only at the passover, but at the Lord's supper, since this was said when both were over.

Matthew Henry On Luke 22:21

By placing this after the institution of the Lord's supper, though in Matthew and Mark it is placed before it, it seems plain that Judas did receive the Lord's supper, did eat of that bread and drink of that cup for, after the solemnity was over, Christ said, Behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. There have been those that have eaten bread with Christ and yet have betrayed him.

Jesus Christ is Almighty God, and would have known that Judas was to leave the room shortly after the Lord's Supper was given by Him. If He did not intend for Judas to eat the bread, and drink the wine, representing His body and blood, then surely to be very clear, He would have instituted the Supper after Judas had left the room. The fact that Judas not only took this very important Supper with Jesus and the 11, and was told by Jesus, "And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you...Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.", no doubt meant that Jesus' death also included Judas along with the other 11. It is only because of ones "theology", that objection would be made to the plain reading of Scripture.

Do you think a person is redeemed by partaking in communion? Are you a Roman Catholic? Do you think that by eating the Passover meal, Judas somehow saved his own soul?

 

[SavedByGrace]

herefore we realize that God ordained the willful rebellion of Satan and the fallen angels

Ordained, means "to establish or order by appointment, decree", which makes God the author of sin, as He IS the cause of their rebellion against Him! This is blasphemy!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Do you think a person is redeemed by partaking in communion? Are you a Roman Catholic? Do you think that by eating the Passover meal, Judas somehow saved his own soul?

regardless of your useless reasoning, the fact remains in the Bible, that Jesus Christ thought it right that Judas was present for the taking of the bread and wine, which represents Jesus' body and blood. And was also told by Jesus, that His death on the cross was for him! Accept what the Bible says without your personal theology!

 

[SavedByGrace]

You seem afraid to follow your own train of thought to its final conclusion.

I don't follow, John Calvin, or John Owen, or any other John, but the Lord Jesus Christ and the teachings in the Holy Bible! I do NOT hate anyone in this world, which is really what the "reformed" do, when they try to argue that passages like John 3:16, is not releted to every single human being! I am not surprised that many "reformed" are declining in numbers and even closing down, as the Lord is not pleased with their teaching on salvation, for example, which is as Pauls says, "another gospel"

 

[Martin Marprelate]

maybe you should read what Calvin wrote on John 3:16

That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found inthe world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.

This language does not in any way restrict anything to only "the elect". "all indiscriminately" and "all men without exception", are UNIVERSAL terms meaning the entire human race, every single person! Otherwise Calvin would have said, "everyone without distinction".

I fully agree with Calvin here. 'For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.' (Romans 10:13). But, as I pointed out in my post #66, and as Romans 3:11 points out, no one seeks for God and therefore no one will call upon His name, unless God draws him (John 6:44).
I think it will be helpful for you to read more of Calvin because then you will understand what Calvinism (which actually predates Calvin) actually is. At present you seem to have a rather wretched caricature of it in your mind.