The Lord's church a denominational mess?

[JSM17]

It is said tht the Lord's church is made up of a few saved people from every denomination that hold to certain so called first(essential) principles.

If this is the case then the Lord's church is dis-organized and in-effecient and a mess.

I do not see unity and oneness which Christ prayed for in John 17:20-26.

I would like to see justification in scripture for denominations.

It would seem to me that The Christ condemned division to those who would believe in Him.

If Jesus is the head of all the so-called (Christian)denominations then how can His body (The church) be divided into all these denominations and still function as His church?

 

[Salty]

If Jesus is the head of all the so-called (Christian)denominations then how can His body (The church) be divided into all these denominations and still function as His church?

The same way that Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, ect, are all Americans! We may have different views about issues - but at heart we are Americans first.

When it comes to be a Christian, we may have differences, but we (evangelical) have one thing in Christ - that we born again thu the blood of Christ and one day we will bow down before our Lord in Heaven

 

[JSM17]

The same way that Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, ect, are all Americans! We may have different views about issues - but at heart we are Americans first.

When it comes to be a Christian, we may have differences, but we (evangelical) have one thing in Christ - that we born again thu the blood of Christ and one day we will bow down before our Lord in Heaven

So it it just the Evangelicals who will be in heaven? What are the differences that Jesus spoke of concerning His people? Do denominations agree on how one becomes a Christians? I do not think so, this forum is evidence of that.

Christians are not like Americans some being of different political views. Christians are to be one in Christ. So either Christ accepts your division or He does not.


How many divisions of Baptists are there and why do they divide among themselves if they agree so much with each other?


So is Christ divided among His people? What passage do you use to declare the many denominations of the one true church?

 

[Zenas]

JSM, I agree with you 100%. As we see in John 17:20-23 it is clear that Jesus did not intend that there be the various denominations. The problem is there can be only one denomination that owns all of the truth. Maybe none at all, and it's certainly not your church or mine. I expect most people feel the same way, at least toward all churches not their own, so your proposition is really moot.

 

[JSM17]

JSM, I agree with you 100%. As we see in John 17:20-23 it is clear that Jesus did not intend that there be the various denominations. The problem is there can be only one denomination that owns all of the truth. Maybe none at all, and it's certainly not your church or mine. I expect most people feel the same way, at least toward all churches not their own, so your proposition is really moot.

I do not have church, if there is one true church it holds no name of man other than our Lord.

I doubt that my point about denominations and churches set up by men is moot as you say. I know the Lord did not intend for all this religious division in His so called name. If ther be no true church then we all strive in vain, yet if there is it ought to be in accordance with the N.T. pattern shown by our Lord to His followers.


The point about all the denominations is that The Christ did not show three different truths concerning baptism, repentance, faith, or how we ought to worship Him, what some make non-essentials concerning the faith was not left for them to divide on.

It is only when man decides he think he knows better than God that he tries to do things contrary to scripture.

 

[Zenas]

I do not have church, if there is one true church it holds no name of man other than our Lord.

I doubt that my point about denominations and churches set up by men is moot as you say. I know the Lord did not intend for all this religious division in His so called name. If ther be no true church then we all strive in vain, yet if there is it ought to be in accordance with the N.T. pattern shown by our Lord to His followers.


The point about all the denominations is that The Christ did not show three different truths concerning baptism, repentance, faith, or how we ought to worship Him, what some make non-essentials concerning the faith was not left for them to divide on.

It is only when man decides he think he knows better than God that he tries to do things contrary to scripture.

All true, but ask any Christian who is serious about his denomination and he will say his church is true to the commands of Christ in the New Testament.

 

[Darron Steele]

It is said tht the Lord's church is made up of a few saved people from every denomination that hold to certain so called first(essential) principles.

If this is the case then the Lord's church is dis-organized and in-effecient and a mess.

I do not see unity and oneness which Christ prayed for in John 17:20-26.

I would like to see justification in scripture for denominations.

It would seem to me that The Christ condemned division to those who would believe in Him.

If Jesus is the head of all the so-called (Christian)denominations then how can His body (The church) be divided into all these denominations and still function as His church?

Well, practice what you preach.

If you assume church groups are automatically divisions, then why not immediately call for the disbanding of the Churches of Christ? I am not actually calling for the disbanding of the Churches of Christ, as I do not hold that assumption. However, if you hold that assumption, you ought to start with your own group.

On the other hand, if you want to end division in the church, it is easily in your grasp. Simply serve and fellowship with any Christians that you can without regard to where they are on Sunday morning. A lot of us are already doing that.

 

[Revmitchell]

It is said tht the Lord's church is made up of a few saved people from every denomination that hold to certain so called first(essential) principles.

If this is the case then the Lord's church is dis-organized and in-effecient and a mess.

I do not see unity and oneness which Christ prayed for in John 17:20-26.

I would like to see justification in scripture for denominations.

It would seem to me that The Christ condemned division to those who would believe in Him.

If Jesus is the head of all the so-called (Christian)denominations then how can His body (The church) be divided into all these denominations and still function as His church?

Do you believe your argument is new or is your agenda to straighten everyone else out?

 

[Jim1999]

Perhaps some confuse the Kingdom of God that Jesus heads in unity from the right hand of God the Father and the local churches as the temporary meeting places on earth.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Tom Butler]

It is said tht the Lord's church is made up of a few saved people from every denomination that hold to certain so called first(essential) principles.

If this is the case then the Lord's church is dis-organized and in-effecient and a mess.

I do not see unity and oneness which Christ prayed for in John 17:20-26.

I would like to see justification in scripture for denominations.

It would seem to me that The Christ condemned division to those who would believe in Him.

If Jesus is the head of all the so-called (Christian)denominations then how can His body (The church) be divided into all these denominations and still function as His church?

If you are defining the Lord's Church as one made up of all believers everywhere, then you are right. There is disunity and dysfunction. It is a useless organism with not one thing to justify its existence. For one thing, it does not and cannot do what its very name means--assemble. The New Testament knows nothing of such a church.

Unity among believers is possible only in a local congregation--like the one I serve, which has sweet harmony. Our church cannot help it that other groups have it wrong.

How does one church unite with another that has different beliefs. We all know the answer to that. Which begs the question, which cherished doctrine which you give up for the sake of appearing unified? How important is your doctrine of how one comes into a right relationship with the Lord Jesus?

Impossible. Unless, of course, you are willing to admit you've been wrong all along. What? Me first? Heh, heh--now you see the problem.

It is true that there are some secondary issues which should not prevent cooperation and fellowship. But there are some issues that we just can't get past.

 

[EdSutton]

For some reason this thread brings to mind the old tale about two old Quakers who were best friends and were talking about this when the first said,

"You know, when it cometh to spiritual things, the only two I am sure of are me and thee, and lately I am starting to have doubts about thee."

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

Unity among believers is possible only in a local congregation--like the one I serve, which has sweet harmony.

Sounds good, I guess, but I have yet to be a member of any church, or involved with any church, where each and every person was in complete agreement on every single point, yet that alone does not always preclude "unity among believers" and "sweet harmony" in these local congregations of believers.

It is true that there are some secondary issues which should not prevent cooperation and fellowship. But there are some issues that we just can't get past.

I well remember a quote from a past teacher of mine when I was in Bible college, which has stuck with me for more than 40 years, although I do not think the thought was original with him, by any means.

In major things we should have unity; in minor things - liberty; in all things - charity.

I agree.

Ed

 

[Matt Black]

JSM17, the Church of Christ is just another denomination, so surely it's part of the problem that your OP lays out?

 

[Pastor Larry]

I would like to see justification in scripture for denominations.

The justification is that if anyone teaches other than biblical doctrine they are to be separated from. Now, obviously people disagree about who is teaching unbiblical doctrine, but it is clear that some are. Some want to retain the name Christian while not following the teachings of Christ. Some errors are more serious than others, actually removing one from Christianity, while others simply make one an "out of order" Christian.

 

[padredurand]

In major things we should have unity; in minor things - liberty; in all things - charity.

According to this faculty posting at Georgetown University, the often quoted sentence is not from Augustine but from "RUPERTUS MELDENIUS an otherwise unknown divine, and author of a remarkable tract in which the sentence first occurs. The golden sentence occurs in the later half of the tract (p. 128 in Luecke's edition), incidentally and in hypothetical form, as follows:-

"Verbo dicam: Si nos servaremus IN necesariis Unitatem, IN non-necessariis Libertatem,
IN UTRISQUE Charitatem, optimo certe loco essent res nostrae."
​

(In a word, I'll say it: if we preserve unity in essentials, liberty in non-essentials, and charity in both, our affairs will be in the best position.)"



ibid

 

[Darron Steele]

Sounds good, I guess, but I have yet to be a member of any church, or involved with any church, where each and every person was in complete agreement on every single point,

You have hit on the challenge.

It is easy to like those who agree with us. It gets a little harder when those people advance views that disagree with us.

Division is caused by the desire to separate from those who will not share `enough' of our views. That is the reason why Scripture treats doing so in the church as an activity of serious carnality.

Scripture does not tell us to agree on a host of religious details. It tells us to resist factiousness and strive to maintain unity.

yet that alone does not always preclude "unity among believers" and "sweet harmony" in these local congregations of believers.I well remember a quote from a past teacher of mine when I was in Bible college, which has stuck with me for more than 40 years, although I do not think the thought was original with him, by any means.

In major things we should have unity; in minor things - liberty; in all things - charity.

I agree.

Ed

Amen. Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and Lord. The Gospel is given in 1 Corinthians 15; He died for our sins, and was resurrected. We are to be followers of Jesus Christ and His servants.

What Scripture is not clear and unambiguous about: the Lord did not see fit to give exhaustive treatises about in His written Word. Agree to disagree as needed, but serve the Lord.

 

[billwald]

This thread illustrates the insufficiency of the Bible and the futility of Sola Scriptura. Why is there onlt one "denomination" of Boy Scouts? Because the Boy Scout "Bible" was sufficient to accomplish its intended purpose. The Bible apparently was not.

 

[Amy.G]

This thread illustrates the insufficiency of the Bible and the futility of Sola Scriptura. Why is there onlt one "denomination" of Boy Scouts? Because the Boy Scout "Bible" was sufficient to accomplish its intended purpose. The Bible apparently was not.

So, again, why are you here????? Simply to ridicule?

Based on your comments you are as lost as last years easter egg.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

So, again, why are you here????? Simply to ridicule?

Based on your comments you are as lost as last years easter egg.

Besides that being a funny statement. Are you saying whoever billwald is not saved? Or mentally lost in a forest of knowledge? I thought all we needed to do to be saved was believe on the Lord Jesus Christ if salvation is what you mean. As far as lost in a forest of knowledge, I'm lost. The more you study the more deep the scriptures get.

 

[Darron Steele]

I suspect Billwald has become Roman Catholic, but does not want to announce it.

The signs:
a) disparaging Scripture. Believe it or not, there are approved Roman Catholic writings that do that,
b) admitting trying to undermine belief in the sufficiency of Scripture.

If he was Orthodox, he would not be doing (a). I think we have a secretive aspiring Roman Catholic apologist here.

On the other hand, he could also be someone who just wants to lead Christians away from the faith. He knows that people here would probably be more likely to stop being Christians than become Catholic, so he uses Catholic polemicists' arguments.