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The Lord's church a denominational mess?

Amy.G

New Member
Besides that being a funny statement. Are you saying whoever billwald is not saved?
It's not for me to say, but his comments are suspicious. I was commenting on his comments. :laugh: That sounded funny.


I thought all we needed to do to be saved was believe on the Lord Jesus Christ if salvation is what you mean.
I agree, but there are outward signs that reveal our salvation and love for God. Constantly criticizing scripture and stating that it's "insufficient" are signs that something is wrong in the heart.
 

Jim1999

<img src =/Jim1999.jpg>
Matt, you think he was just being picadilly? Sometime we need a little of that to wake us up.

Cheers,

Jim
 

billwald

New Member
I am currently a member of First Everett (WA) Christian Reformed Church. Previously I have met with various Baptist denominations, mostly GARBC, and The Plymouth Brethern.
 

JSM17

New Member
JSM17, the Church of Christ is just another denomination, so surely it's part of the problem that your OP lays out?

Good point! For this very reason I have set my mark on striving to be open about scripture and have notice some things among my brethren that I am not in agreement about. But nevertheless the OP does not exclude any group it actually includes all groups not striving for biblical unity as Jesus prayed for in John17. The world is made of people with minds. Minds that God gave to them so that they could decide about the things that they need to obey. Since when do we need "Synods," Presbyteries," "Councils," "General Assemblies," and "Conferences" to decide when and how we do things.

As I have stated before, and I will use Baptist as an example (since this is a baptistboard), there are more baptists divisions in the world than any other that I have seen. Why are not all the baptists meeting together? Because they cannot! Why because they cannot agree enough to meet together.

This is not the Lord doing this, it is man. Some of you may know about the churches of Christ, we are dividing among ourselves due to man's enabilities to agree on scripture. That does not make it OK and it does not make it right.
Only those who are in Christ will be in heaven, those who are unified with Christ, those who are unified with other Christians. Sooner or later we must decide whether or not we are unified with Christ, but wonder why we are not unified with all those others that we might claim to be our bretheren yet cannot fellowship with them because we are divided about issues. Some of these issues are essential to salvation some are not. Yet even among the evangelicals there is this inconsistancy to declare some brothers when they are not.

Paul said if anyone preaches a different gospel than the one he delivered then let him be accursed. I declare that if anyone on this forum who does not agree with certain essential doctrine of any particular group then you must mark them as teaching a different gospel. The one who teaches such is either not saved or fallen.

Which brings me to my last point. If you study the differences among all the groups among us today who claim Christ as theirs; you will find that hese groups do not and cannot agree enough to be saved, yet hold to their differences. You cannot take all the denominations in the world or even half of them then claim that they are saved when they are not unified with Christ!
 

Matt Black

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So what's your solution to the problem? You're above post sounds like many I've seen Catholics make, BTW...
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
I am currently a member of First Everett (WA) Christian Reformed Church. Previously I have met with various Baptist denominations, mostly GARBC, and The Plymouth Brethern.
I'm not familiar with your church. By your post I wonder how do you determine accurate translation of Doctrine in Scriptures?
 

rbell

Active Member
This thread illustrates the insufficiency of the Bible and the futility of Sola Scriptura. Why is there onlt one "denomination" of Boy Scouts? Because the Boy Scout "Bible" was sufficient to accomplish its intended purpose. The Bible apparently was not.

Wow...you think God makes mistakes, you think His Word isn't enough...

...remind us again why you post on a Christian message board? To turn people from the faith?

Good grief.
 

Tom Bryant

Well-Known Member
This thread illustrates the insufficiency of the Bible and the futility of Sola Scriptura. Why is there onlt one "denomination" of Boy Scouts? Because the Boy Scout "Bible" was sufficient to accomplish its intended purpose. The Bible apparently was not.

Actually in illustrates the sinfullness of man and the inability of man to infallibly interpret and understand the eternal God's Word.

This statement illustrates that you have some growing to do in your Christian life and belief.
 

Darron Steele

New Member
JSM17, the Church of Christ is just another denomination, so surely it's part of the problem that your OP lays out?
Good point! For this very reason I have set my mark on striving to be open about scripture and have notice some things among my brethren that I am not in agreement about. But nevertheless the OP does not exclude any group it actually includes all groups not striving for biblical unity as Jesus prayed for in John17. The world is made of people with minds. Minds that God gave to them so that they could decide about the things that they need to obey. Since when do we need "Synods," Presbyteries," "Councils," "General Assemblies," and "Conferences" to decide when and how we do things.

As I have stated before, and I will use Baptist as an example (since this is a baptistboard), there are more baptists divisions in the world than any other that I have seen. Why are not all the baptists meeting together? Because they cannot! Why because they cannot agree enough to meet together.

This is not the Lord doing this, it is man. Some of you may know about the churches of Christ, we are dividing among ourselves due to man's enabilities to agree on scripture. That does not make it OK and it does not make it right.
Only those who are in Christ will be in heaven, those who are unified with Christ, those who are unified with other Christians. Sooner or later we must decide whether or not we are unified with Christ, but wonder why we are not unified with all those others that we might claim to be our bretheren yet cannot fellowship with them because we are divided about issues.
Cannot, or will not?

Normally, it is the latter.

Fact: what the Churches of Christ are doing in their buildings on Sunday morning does not normally affect what happens in my congregation's building on Sunday morning.

The problem is that people take things from Sunday morning and make those relevant where they are not. `We will not fellowship or minister with your Christians on Monday because your congregation does do x-y-z in your place on Sunday morning.'

To which Christians ought reply resoundingly: NONSENSE!

The idea that unity depends on agreement over a host of religious details is not taught in Scripture. You will not see it.

We are not divided because we cannot agree; we are divided for two reasons:
1) lack of knowledge about what Scripture teaches regarding unity,
2) carnal desires to divide against those who will not agree with us.

About #1: it is a tradition that without agreement over a bunch of religious questions, we cannot have unity. It is engrained. People assume it with no question. Therefore, if two people disagree about anything, at least one commonly will assume this provides justification to divide. It does not. The tradition is bogus.

About #2: this is more severe. The attitude is `We want nothing to do with you if you will not affirm our rightness by agreeing with us.' To such people, their agreement that Jesus Christ ought to be served is overshadowed by their desire to be agreed with.

Paul said if anyone preaches a different gospel than the one he delivered then let him be accursed. I declare that if anyone on this forum who does not agree with certain essential doctrine of any particular group then you must mark them as teaching a different gospel. The one who teaches such is either not saved or fallen.
...
Which brings me to my last point. If you study the differences among all the groups among us today who claim Christ as theirs; you will find that hese groups do not and cannot agree enough to be saved, yet hold to their differences.
The Gospel in Scripture is NOT the plan of salvation.

The Gospel is the story of what Christ did for us. Read 1 Corinthians 15. Where the KJV has "gospel" the ICB translates the Greek as "Good News" and rightly so. The Gospel is the Good News about Jesus Christ.

The Gospel is not about us. You will not see any indication in Scripture that the Gospel is about things we do. The Gospel = the Good News about what Jesus Christ has done for us.

We can hold different plans of salvation and still be spreading the same Gospel.

The problem with the Galatians is that someone was preaching a different Gospel: that Jesus Christ did not change anything. THAT is a different Gospel if there ever was any.

To my knowledge, all church groups are sharing the same Good News about what Jesus Christ did for us.
 
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billwald

New Member
>Actually in illustrates the sinfullness of man and the inability of man to infallibly interpret and understand the eternal God's Word.

OK, agree! Sin pollutes every human activity including every church on earth. But how, then, should God communicate with humans. Should Jesus not return and rule in person?
 

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
>I'm not familiar with your church. By your post I wonder how do you determine accurate translation of Doctrine in Scriptures?

www.crcna.org

Creeds


Confessions


Other Resources


Wow! So basically Calvinistic. Ok. Just curious how do you define in the Apostles creed the Communion of Saints? I mean if you adhere to the apostles creed then how do you define that aspect? I'm actually not critizing here just getting info.
 

Alive in Christ

New Member
JSM17...

You said...

"If there be no true church"'

There is a true church.

It is all of the christians on earth

The different groups are ultimetly irrelavent.

There is ONE church on earth. All of the christians(truly born again people) on earth.
 

billwald

New Member
>Just curious how do you define in the Apostles creed the Communion of Saints?

The Heidelberg Catechism waffles. I find it hard to believe that the saints in Heaven have completely forgotten about the people on Earth. Would they not pray for the people they left behind? When we praise God are we not is some sort of communion with the people down the street who are praising God? And between us and the people in Heaven who are praising God?
 

billwald

New Member
>The Gospel in Scripture is NOT the plan of salvation.

Why does there have to be a "plan of salvation?"

You saying it is merely a human interpretation of the text?
 
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