The Lord's Discourse

[lastday]

Lastday

Truth Files:
Here is where you and I begin our debate in earnest based on your claim:

There will be signs in the sun, moon, and stars related to events upon the earth, but all of this will be part of the 70th week and not before....the beginning of this time frame will come suddenly and with no warning....and it will begin like this: Here you quote the Signs of the Day of Wrath. Rev.6:12-16

First, let's be clear:
Are you claiming the 70th Week ITSELF begins at any moment...at the
Signs of Seal 6?
Most PreTribbers place these Signs seven years AFTER the Rapture.
PreWrath people place them Months/Years before the 70th Seven ends.
What evidence can you give that these signs PRECEDE the Tribulation?
Mel

 

[lastday]

Winman,
You write:

There is no way NASA could predict a supernatural act like this, in fact, if you
know anything about NASA, they would deny any supernatural act if they could
predict or show it, which they cannot.

Permit me to point out that it is not NASA or anyone else who could predict, at any
time, when a supernatural act would cause the sun to turn dark! The point in question,
however, is not the darkening of the sun...but the known times for Lunar Eclipses!!
We know the times, 7 in number since Christ died until 2033, in which there was or will be total back-to-back Lunar "blood-red" eclipses at Passover and the Feast of Tabs!!!

Surely you know about the "Astronomical Tables of the Sun, Moon and Planets" by Jean
Mills. He gives the next four pairs still to occur in 2014, 2015, 2032 and 2033. Mark Blits
believes the SC could occur in 2014 or 2015. I think 2033 is more likely since it alone is
2000 years after AD 33 so that Hosea 5:14 to 6:2 might be fulfilled "after 2 days...on the 3rd day". The place and time of the Total Lunar Eclipse places it westward for 3.5
hours westward from the East Coast of America starting as of 5 AM on Oct.8 of 2033.
Mel

 

[Truth Files]

Mel asked:

"What evidence can you give that these signs PRECEDE the Tribulation?"

These are events and they will occur at the very beginning of the tribulation time frame and are part of it [Revelation 6:12-17]

There will be no signs or events prior to this beginning

All of the things recorded in Revelation's unfolding of the day of the Lord are scheduled for the period which is still pending and not before

The day of the Lord will come suddenly and there will be no warning ..... no particular signs or events just before

He has said that no one can know the time [date] ..... He means the beginning ..... the start date .... if there were to be signs and warnings then one would know

Only after the tribulation period begins will the earth dwellers know that they are under His judgment .... not before

There are however stage setting events that must develop and set up before the day of the Lord can come

And here they are:

A remnant part of Israel must be in the land and surrounded by the nation's ancient enemies who intend to destroy the nation .... this is underway and it is common knowledge today

The "professing" church must be almost totally apostate and riddled with falsehood ... it is .... more than it ever has been today .... there are very few true believers left at this time and the "church" is full of false prophets, false teachers, and fence sitters

There is nothing else given in scripture that can be used to predict the Lord's intervention .... and it will come at a time that no one can predict

Maybe today .... maybe not

Just make certain that you are ready

 

[lastday]

Truth,

Two of your statements are self-contradictory:

ONE: The day of the Lord will come suddenly and there will be no warning .....
no particular signs or EVENTS just before

TWO: There are however stage setting events that must develop and set up before
the day of the Lord can come

The Signs of Seal Six occur BEFORE the Events of the Day of Wrath!
The Sign of the Son of Man must occur BEFORE the Wrath of that Day!!
"No One enters heaven's Temple until the Last Plague empties in the air"!!!

The Last Plague must empty BEFORE the 7th Trumpet WRATH can Begin!
Christ must be crowned as King BEFORE that Wrath "has come"!!
The Last Martyrs must die BEFORE God's Wrath begins!!!

Events of that Day of Wrath, the Lastday, begin "AFTER Great Tribulation"!
Jesus said these EVENTS come "like a snare" AFTER men see the Sign of His Coming!!
Instead, you have put these Warnings and Signs of His Wrath before the 70th Seven begins!!!
Mel

 

[Truth Files]

"TWO: There are however stage setting events that must develop and set up before
the day of the Lord can come"

No contradiction here Mel

What is happening today is just a set up which must necessarily take place in order for the the day of the Lord to begin

These things must be present and a part of the coming time frame of the day that is coming

But no one knows how long the Lord is going to tarry before He pulls the trigger

Much time could lapse before He does .... or He could break in before this day is over

There is nothing else that has to occur which would stand in the way of His sudden intervention ..... and this is why He has said that you must be ready

Extra -biblical speculations should never be made regarding the time of His second advent .... because when it is done and ends up in failure this makes a mockery of biblical prophecy [Acts 1:6-7]

Some have done and do this, either in innocence .... or by design

The list of false teachers and false prophets and their failures is a long one

If you want to witness and warn unbelievers and fence sitters you must tell tell them that they must be saved and ready because the Lord could intervene today

If you speculate as you are doing and setting the date out into the future there are those who will sit ..... and wait .... and these will not be ready

.... and if you are wrong with your prediction you could be the reason for many who will parish

 

[lastday]

Truth,
Why did you skip your statement #1 that contradicts your statement #2?
Your response jumped right over the contradiction of statement #1:
Two of your statements are self-contradictory:

Quote:
ONE: The day of the Lord will come suddenly and there will be no warning .....
no particular signs or EVENTS just before
Quote:
TWO: There are however stage setting events that must develop and set up before
the day of the Lord can come

You admit there are "stage setting events" in #TWO but deny this fact in #ONE!
There are other warnings Jesus gives before the Wrath of the 7th Trumpet!!
There is no "appointed time for God's Wrath" prior to the 7th Trumpet!!!
Mel

 

[Truth Files]

No contradiction Mel

The current stage setting is not recorded in any vision

And things could go on for years before the Lord pulls the trigger .... or He might do it today

..... the will be no warning or signs given before that can be detected by anyone

Otherwise this possibility would contradict the Lord's own words on the subject

All if the balance of the signs and events of the tribulation are reserved for the time frame of the 70th
week decreed for Israel and beyond

And it will come suddenly without expectation by the earth dwellers

Joel
1:15 Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. [Revelation 6:12-17; 8]

3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Malachi
4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD

Matthew
17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Joel sees the very beginning of the coming day of the Lord

He also sees the battle of Armageddon at the end of the 70th week decreed for Israel [Joel 2; 3]

Malachi sees the advent of John the Baptist before the coming day of the Lord which took place just before the end of the 69th week decreed for Israel [Matthew 17:11-13]

The visions of all of the Bible prophets break at the end of the 69th week decreed [about 33 A.D.]

They resume at the beginning of the 70th week decreed which is still pending

This will be the beginning of the day of the Lord

There will be no signs or warnings given to earth dwellers before

The 6th seal portent leads to the beginning of actual Judgment events of the tribulation period [Revelation 8:2]

 

[lastday]

Lastday

Truth,
You write:

There will be no signs or warnings given to earth dwellers before the 6th seal portent
leads to the beginning of actual Judgment events of the tribulation period [Rev.8]

John reveals, in the 2nd Seal, that "peace will be taken from the earth" before the
signs of the Day of Wrath can begin! That corresponds to the "breaking of the covenant
of Dan.9:27 in the midst of Daniel's 70th "7". This is part of the "stage setting" for
the Day of Wrath...a stage setting that occurs PRIOR to the Signs of the 6th Seal !!
I don't see how you can support your claim that "no prophecy needs to be fulfilled
before the Day of Wrath begins...that it could begin today"!!!
Mel

 

[Truth Files]

Well you just don't see it Mel

I do

 

[lecoop]

Well you just don't see it Mel

I do

Hmmmm. I joined up just to get into this tread, and looking above I see that it says "Baptist debate forum (Baptists Only)"

Therefore, since I am not Baptist, I cannot join. : -(((((((

Do you have a place for end time doctrines?

Coop

 

[lastday]

Hi there Coop,
I'm sure you are welcome on this Forum of Endtime Studies.
We have had some hearty exchanges in the past.
Remember on the ProphecyNews website?
Mel