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The Man on the Middle Cross

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Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Silverhair said:
The cross made salvation possible for all. Our faith makes it actual for the individual.

1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

but it is only those that have trusted in the risen Christ that will be justified/saved.

Rom 4:5 However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God

Our justification is grounded in Christ Jesus but we are justified because we believe.

Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.


In the NT we find six aspects of Justification

We are justified by grace (Tit_3:5-7, Eph 2:8-9) — that means we do not deserve it.

We are justified by faith (Rom_5:1-2, Gal 2:16) — that means that we have to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to receive it.

We are justified by blood (Rom_5:9-10, Rom_3:25) — that refers to the price the Savior paid in order that we might be justified.

We are justified by power (Rom_4:24-25) — the same power that raised the Lord Jesus from the dead.

We are justified by God (Gal_3:8-9, Rom 3:30) — He is the One who reckons us righteous.

We are justified by our works (Jas_2:18, Jas_2:24, Jas 2:26) — not meaning that good works earn justification, but that they are the evidence that we have been justified.
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Every last one of those scriptures apply only to the elect
 
Ben1445

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Martin Marprelate said:
Simply knowing the words of Christ and trusting them.
John 6:37. "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me; and the one who comes to Me I will never cast out."

But tell me, you who are relying on your faith: how do you know that your faith will endure? How do you know that some crafty atheist is not going to refute all your arguments and shatter your supposedly unshakeable faith?
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You don’t rely on faith. You rely on the Saviour. That is faith.

2 Timothy 1:12
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
 
Ascetic X

Ascetic X

Well-Known Member
SovereignGrace said:
Bingo! Salvation goes no further than those whose sins have been atoned for, paid in full. Its not the cross PLUS faith that saves. Faith is not an addendum to the cross. As Dr. Greg Bahnsen once said, "If justification is grounded in our faith, then it is grounded in something about us."
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Dr. Greg Bahnsen must not have read these verses.

Romans 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:16

know that a man is not justified by works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
 
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Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Silverhair said:
So you do not actually believe the word of God, that is quite the revelation from a preacher.
1Jn 2:2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
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This is what makes it so depressing to discuss with you. You keep trotting out the same verses without listening to what you have been told.
First of all, the words, "The sins of" do not appear in any ancient manuscript. Secondly, "the whole world" only rarely means "all the people in the world.' Thirdly, if The Lord Jesus is the atoning sacrifice (or "propitiation") for every person in the world, then God is propitiated in respect of all the people in the world and every single person will be saved, which is clearly not the case.

All this has been explained to you more than once and not so long ago. I for one am sick to death of wiping your theological bottom for you, only for you to foul things up again. For goodness sake, read the replies you receive and don't keep repeating the same nonsense.
 
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Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ben1445 said:
You don’t rely on faith. You rely on the Saviour. That is faith.

2 Timothy 1:12
For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
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You are exactly right! But the question is, what saviour is one relying on? The devils in hell believe there was someone called Jesus of Nazareth who did a lot of good stuff. They even believe that He is the Son of God (e.g. Matt. 8:29), but it does them no good at all. The faith that saves is seeing oneself as a lost sinner, justly under the condemnation of God, and casting oneself on the Lord Jesus Christ and His blood shed upon the cross for sinners. That is what 2 Tim. 1:12 is about.
But faith itself gets no one anywhere. You may believe that your car will get you from San Diego to Duluth, but however sincere that faith may be, if your car breaks down 15 miles into the journey, then that faith (and maybe the car!) is worthless. It's not the faith that counts; it's the object of faith.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ascetic X said:
Dr. Greg Bahnsen must not have read these verses.

Romans 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:16

know that a man is not justified by works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
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Trust me, he knew his Bible inside and out. We are justified by, not through, faith. Faith is evidence of justification not the cause.
 
Ben1445

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Martin Marprelate said:
You are exactly right! But the question is, what saviour is one relying on? The devils in hell believe there was someone called Jesus of Nazareth who did a lot of good stuff. They even believe that He is the Son of God (e.g. Matt. 8:29), but it does them no good at all. The faith that saves is seeing oneself as a lost sinner, justly under the condemnation of God, and casting oneself on the Lord Jesus Christ and His blood shed upon the cross for sinners. That is what 2 Tim. 1:12 is about.
But faith itself gets no one anywhere. You may believe that your car will get you from San Diego to Duluth, but however sincere that faith may be, if your car breaks down 15 miles into the journey, then that faith (and maybe the car!) is worthless. It's not the faith that counts; it's the object of faith.
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No disagreement with this. I just want to point out how easy it is to say that faith saves.
See the quoted post.

I absolutely agree that faith in some things is unfounded and unwise.
Faith in the risen Jesus Christ our Lord as Saviour is no mistake.
It is difficult to be saved if you are unable to recognize that you need a Saviour. Jesus said that He came, not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance; and they that are whole need not a physician.
 
Ben1445

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
SovereignGrace said:
Trust me, he knew his Bible inside and out. We are justified by, not through, faith. Faith is evidence of justification not the cause.
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This is semantics.
I tried to make it even. Five references for each side but this is not an exhaustive list for either side.

In the By Faith corner…

Acts 15:9
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Romans 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


And in the Through faith corner…

Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Galatians 3:14
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2 Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


SovereignGrace said:
We are justified by, not through, faith.
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And the referee in the middle?? Well the referee answers the subject of justification specifically.


Romans 3:30
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
 
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Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
You cant see the truth. The world of Jn 3:17 is saved through Him, the world of the elect. Your false doctrine would read Jn 3:17

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might potentially be saved.
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BF you are reading your calvinism into the text again.
 
Ben1445

Ben1445

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:
So does your faith in the risen Saviour believe that what He did on the Cross actually saved you or made it possible for you to get saved if you meet a condition like believe ?
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But Jesus made it possible for anyone to be saved.
Not all have faith in the Saviour. Not all are saved.
Jesus is unable to do mighty works in some people because of their unbelief.
If they believe on Him, He is able to Save them.
But I already know that you don’t believe that. We had two whole threads about potential.
So I’ll ask you again, if God is able to graft in the unbelieving Israel, does that mean He would have to die again to atone for those you think He did not atone for the first time?
Or is their sin answered for and they reject their Saviour?
My apologies to the thread.
 
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