The ME fallacy's false inheritance

[Hope of Glory]

To say that the message Jesus came to preach is the millenium is heresy.

I can't believe you just called Jesus the Christ and John the Baptizer heretics!

Have you no sense of decency?

 

[Lacy Evans]

What they were looking for is not an indication of what Christ was preaching. They were Jews who were not looking for the humbel servant. Clearly they missed that part in Isaiah 53. But thanks for proving my point.

Not what they were looking for but rather Christ's response. He never corrected their view of what the term "The Kingdom" meant. He corrected their view of it's timing but the coming Kingdom with Christ ruling the Earth on David's throne is always the primary understood meaning of the term "The Kingdom" in both testaments.

He did time and time again. John 3 is a clear example of this.

I suppose you mean where he introduced the concept of being born again? He still divided "seeing" the Kingdom (in faith - 3:3)and entering the Kingdom (bodily - 3:5)

Did you miss the part where He died on the cross?

I don't understand what you are implying? Please explain.

But instead he explains that somebody will sit on his Left and Right in the very Kingdom that they are expecting (Although it was the Father's place to determine who.)

Well thanks for the scripture on that... anyway maybe you should take a look at Isaiah 53.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic, but I'll assume you are not. You're welcome, brother.

Can you explain how the suffering Messiah of Isaiah 53 cancels out the conquering Messiah who has fellow conquerors on his right and left hand.

Why do you think saved Jews were willing to crucify Him?

It was a matter of the timing of the Kingdom and not the essence of his Kingdom that infuriated the Jews. they wantd it now but Christ had other work to do and more folks to include in his Messianic plans.

 

[Hope of Glory]

I can just say that we as saints disagree in the exlusion Part. To say that believers will be in hell is complete heresy. To say that the message Jesus came to preach is the millenium is heresy.

OK, forget hell.

Where do those who are excluded go to?

Or is there no accountability?

 

[DHK]

That is a great example, lets look at it.
The judge is a figure for God. The woman is a figure for a believer crying out to God. The avenging is a figure for... avenging!

It is God that avengeth. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord. He writes this in the light of His coming when he shall avenge Israel of her enemies. However he shall do the same for believers and their unbelieving enemies. God protects those that are his. He answers the prayers of those who travail in prayer with him. The real point of the parable is very simple. He wants us to pray and not to faint. All other details are relatively superflous. The poinnt of the parable was simply to illustrate the truth stated in verse one. It was a simple illustration. We need to be careful about trying to extract other doctrine from it. That is what I am saying.
I believe that those who believe in ME try to extract too much doctrine from parables meant to illustrate simple truths of Scripture.

 

[DHK]

We aren't allowed to start any new topics.

New topics are great.
New ME and related topics are not. We have enough ME and related topics still going. Let's expand our thinking a little.

 

[TCGreek]

I believe that those who believe in ME try to extract too much doctrine from parables meant to illustrate simple truths of Scripture.

A big AMEN!

 

[Hope of Glory]

Do you believe the Spirit reveals truth by not thinking very hard?

"Study to show thyself approved" is obviously not aimed at saved people.

 

[James_Newman]

It is God that avengeth. Vengeance is mine saith the Lord. He writes this in the light of His coming when he shall avenge Israel of her enemies. However he shall do the same for believers and their unbelieving enemies. God protects those that are his. He answers the prayers of those who travail in prayer with him. The real point of the parable is very simple. He wants us to pray and not to faint. All other details are relatively superflous. The poinnt of the parable was simply to illustrate the truth stated in verse one. It was a simple illustration. We need to be careful about trying to extract other doctrine from it. That is what I am saying.
I believe that those who believe in ME try to extract too much doctrine from parables meant to illustrate simple truths of Scripture.

The purpose of the parable of the talents in Mat 25 is that you ought to do something for God with what God gives you. It's a simple illustration. That doesn't negate the literal warning of being cast into outer darkness. We need to be careful about ignoring scriptural examples that show these parabolic warnings are literal.

 

[James_Newman]

New topics are great.
New ME and related topics are not. We have enough ME and related topics still going. Let's expand our thinking a little.

Yes, lets start another thread on whether Christians should or shouldn't drink/dance/smoke/watch movies because Jesus won't judge us for what we do anyway. What is the point in iron sharpening iron if God just sharpens everyone when they die?

 

[Lacy Evans]

New topics are great.
New ME and related topics are not. We have enough ME and related topics still going. Let's expand our thinking a little.

I agree. We had like a Kazillion threads going at once. We have four going right now. Altghough two of them ( The Lazy Man's Guide to Interpretting Parables and A Question: Eternal Life, Kingdom of God, Saved?) really shouldn't be. They just got off topic.

I suggest we fill up

The ME fallacy's false inheritance and Another verse that blows ME out of the water with 30 or so pages, then if you EIREITADers arent convinced, or haven't convinced us heretics, perhaps we can start a new thread.:laugh:

lacy

 

[TCGreek]

The purpose of the parable of the talents in Mat 25 is that you ought to do something for God with what God gives you. It's a simple illustration. That doesn't negate the literal warning of being cast into outer darkness. We need to be careful about ignoring scriptural examples that show these parabolic warnings are literal.

You tried that on Matt.18 and got a person being tormented for 10,000 talents worth of years, where a talent was equal to 15yrs, far exceeding your 1000yr-theory.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

We aren't allowed to start any new topics.

Regardless you need to get back to the op.

 

[DHK]

Yes, lets start another thread on whether Christians should or shouldn't drink/dance/smoke/watch movies because Jesus won't judge us for what we do anyway. What is the point in iron sharpening iron if God just sharpens everyone when they die?

Well, what do you think? Did Jesus drink/dance/smoke/watch movies?
What do those little letters mean: wwjd?

 

[James_Newman]

You tried that on Matt.18 and got a person being tormented for 10,000 talents worth of years, where a talent was equal to 15yrs, far exceeding your 1000yr-theory.

I'm sorry that this is lost on you. The literal in the parable is not how much money the servant owed his Lord. But your theology won't allow you to understand what I'm saying.

 

[James_Newman]

Well, what do you think? Did Jesus drink/dance/smoke/watch movies?
What do those little letters mean: wwjd?

I don't think we should get doctrine from wristbands. But if you are suggesting that we need to do what Jesus did, I would ask you why?

 

[TCGreek]

I'm sorry that this is lost on you. The literal in the parable is not how much money the servant owed his Lord. But your theology won't allow you to understand what I'm saying.

1. Now it's my theology that is the problem.

2. You are the one who said and I quote, "Parables are stories that usually have figurative or symbolic elements that represent literal subjects. The primary warning or action in the parable is literal." When this principle is applied to Matt 18:34, what does a person come up with?

3. So what is the "literal" that the person should take away from the parable?

 

[James_Newman]

1. Now it's my theology that is the problem.

2. You are the one who said and I quote, "Parables are stories that usually have figurative or symbolic elements that represent literal subjects. The primary warning or action in the parable is literal." When this principle is applied to Matt 18:34, what does a person come up with?

3. So what is the "literal" that the person should take away from the parable?

The figure of the money owed is symbolic of whatever God has forgiven you of. The figure of being delivered to the tormentor is symbolic of what? Being delivered to the tormentor.

Matthew 18:34-35
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

What does God do to believers who don't forgive their brothers?

 

[TCGreek]

The figure of the money owed is symbolic of whatever God has forgiven you of. The figure of being delivered to the tormentor is symbolic of what? Being delivered to the tormentor.

Matthew 18:34-35
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

What does God do to believers who don't forgive their brothers?

V. 35 is not part of the parable.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

The figure of the money owed is symbolic of whatever God has forgiven you of. The figure of being delivered to the tormentor is symbolic of what? Being delivered to the tormentor.

Matthew 18:34-35
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

What does God do to believers who don't forgive their brothers?

There is no such monster.

 

[James_Newman]

There is no such monster.

So now you believe Jesus was making up boogey men to scare the kiddies? :laugh: