James_Newman
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TCGreek said:
Great, what does likewise refer to in the parable?
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The ME fallacy's false inheritance
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Great, what does likewise refer to in the parable?
Because he is our example:James_Newman said:I don't think we should get doctrine from wristbands. But if you are suggesting that we need to do what Jesus did, I would ask you why?
1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: (in suffering)
John 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. (in humility)
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (in love)
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (in mercy)
And if his mercy is such toward the unsaved, how much more is it toward the saved, how greater is his love who would never allow his own to be separated from him in a Baptist Purgatory of a thousand years of suffering. This is incomprehensible and totally against the nature of God. It makes him a cruel and vindictive God.
Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
--There is nothing, no power so great (not even a Baptist Purgatory) that can separate me from God and his love.
James_Newman
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DHK said:Because he is our example:
1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: (in suffering)
John 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. (in humility)
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (in love)
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (in mercy)
And if his mercy is such toward the unsaved, how much more is it toward the saved, how greater is his love who would never allow his own to be separated from him in a Baptist Purgatory of a thousand years of suffering. This is incomprehensible and totally against the nature of God. It makes him a cruel and vindictive God.
Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
--There is nothing, no power so great (not even a Baptist Purgatory) that can separate me from God and his love.
Example for what? Why do I need an example?
James_Newman said:Great, what does likewise refer to in the parable?
You are the one with the interpretive principle, so tell me what does "likewise" refer to in the parable?
Our example in all things is Christ. Whether it be in eithical matters: dancing and drinking, etc. or whether it be in doctrinal matters like the subject of ME. Our example is Christ. He is found in the written Word of God, which is our final authority in all matters of faith and doctrine.James_Newman said:Example for what? Why do I need an example?
James_Newman
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TCGreek said:You are the one with the interpretive principle, so tell me what does "likewise" refer to in the parable?
I guess it doesn't refer to anything, you can't get doctrine from parables.
James_Newman
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DHK said:Our example in all things is Christ. Whether it be in eithical matters: dancing and drinking, etc. or whether it be in doctrinal matters like the subject of ME. Our example is Christ. He is found in the written Word of God, which is our final authority in all matters of faith and doctrine.
And if you don't follow that example you are:
a) not saved
b) not going to reign with Christ
c) ???
1. V. 35 is the principle drawn from the parable. The principle is this: The Father will discipline those that belong to Him who fail to forgive fromt he heart.
2. V. 35 doesn't answer the question of how long they will be disciplined or where they will be disciplined or what is involved in that discipline.
2. V. 35 doesn't answer the question of how long they will be disciplined or where they will be disciplined or what is involved in that discipline.
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James_Newman
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Thats where the principle that I brought up in the other thread comes in. 100% of the time, when the bible gives you the example of the interpretation of a figurative warning like this, the warning is literal. I don't think you could show one example otherwise. Why do you think likewise means anything other than what he said in the previous verse? The principle is 'likewise' shall the Father do to you. Do what? You may have to look elswhere to find out how long or where, but you don't have to guess at what.TCGreek said:1. V. 35 is the principle drawn from the parable. The principle is this: The Father will discipline those that belong to Him who fails to forgive fromt he heart.
2. V. 35 doesn't answer the question of how long they were be disciplined or where they will be disciplined or what is involved in that discipline.
Hope of Glory
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You silly, silly man! "Likewise shall my father do to you" obviously means that he won't do anything, because parables are worthless illustrations! Don't you pay attention?James_Newman said:I guess it doesn't refer to anything, you can't get doctrine from parables.
Edited to change my answer:
Wait, wait, wait! I got it! A person who is really and truly saved will automatically forgive from the heart, so this is just an empty, meaningless warning!
I'm catching on now!
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1. Every warning that is addressed to a believer must be heed.
2. The doctrine of election as understood from a Reformed perspective does not nullify the warnings of Scripture.
3. The warning of Matt.18:35 must be heed by the believer. Have there been believers who have failed to forgive from the heart? Absolutely!
4. No well-bred Calvinist would deny this. What we are denying on BB are the false conclusions reached about the Millennial Kingdom.
5. Conclusions that teach that is a believer doesn't measure up, he will miss the Millennial Kingdom. Why? He will be 1000yrs in torture because he didn't measure. So instead of reigning with Christ, he will be wailing with the devil in hell.
6. Any doctrine that throws the believer with the devil in hell for torture is an aberration of the true gospel.
2. The doctrine of election as understood from a Reformed perspective does not nullify the warnings of Scripture.
3. The warning of Matt.18:35 must be heed by the believer. Have there been believers who have failed to forgive from the heart? Absolutely!
4. No well-bred Calvinist would deny this. What we are denying on BB are the false conclusions reached about the Millennial Kingdom.
5. Conclusions that teach that is a believer doesn't measure up, he will miss the Millennial Kingdom. Why? He will be 1000yrs in torture because he didn't measure. So instead of reigning with Christ, he will be wailing with the devil in hell.
6. Any doctrine that throws the believer with the devil in hell for torture is an aberration of the true gospel.
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standingfirminChrist
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DHK said:Are you familiar with the woman that had ten coins and lost one? She swept her house and found the missing coin. In the parable what does the broom represent?
the Broom represents the work of the Church in finding lost souls.
Cause they're Jews. Jews are the children of the kingdom but many didn't believe on Messiah when He came -- especially the Phairsees Jesus was speaking to in this context! Another clue is they are called "servants."npetreley said:This verse, all by itself, is most telling. How can they be rejected from the kingdom (as ME states) and still be called children of the kingdom?
skypair
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"Unfaithful servant" = "wicked servant" = etc. = "unfaithful Jew."Rufus_1611 said:He said...
Did Tozer believe that the unfaithful servant was a saved believer?
skypair
Now that's just an ignorant statement, 2Tim!2 Timothy2:1-4 said:To say that the message Jesus came to preach is the millenium is heresy.
What was Mt 5-7?? The "law" of the millennial kingdom.
What was the "gospel of the kingdom" that He and about 82 of His closest disciples preached? The gospel of the coming millennium!
What, indeed, does the church live in?? It is the "first form" of the millennial kingdom beginning with its own Pentecost -- NOT the ones the Jews will receive! In our form, Christ is not the visible King -- all the laws of the kingdom do not apply -- but this is where ME-ers (and others besides) make a mistake. They either do or don't see the kingdom now and fail to notice that it is only in part -- mainly, that the "new covenant" part has been "activated" for the Jews and Gentiles who believe!
skypair
Now there's a keen observation! My notion is that they don't mean to or don't understand their own motives but, indeed, they would rule us now by their judgments much like the Catholics. Sort of "God's police of our behavior."npetreley said:The Pharisees and many (if not most) of the Jews of Jesus' day:
1. They were self-righteous and convinced they had to earn their way into the kingdom through works.
2. They enjoyed their positions of power and privileges of their positions, especially when it meant they could judge others.
3. They were so focused on the physical and political kingdom that they missed the truth of the Bible and did not recognize Jesus for who He really is.
Sound like any folks you know?
skypair
That truly IS the issue embedded in this ME controversy, isn't it? If the church somehow bypasses the judgments you cite, then your doctrine is one of a long list of hoaxes that are foisted by legalists who put themselves in God's place, some actually teaching that they are "Christ vicariously" living among us with exclusive teaching authority, no?Lacy Evans said:That's a wonderful story [the rapture]. If you back it up with scripture I might buy it.
Well, the scripture you desire and that has the church bypassing YOUR JSOC's are (this is my specialty :thumbs: ) -- 1Thes 4:16-17, 1Cor 15:50-52, 2Thes 2:5-8, Rev 3:10, Mt 25:1-13, 2Thes 1:5-6, Rev 4:1 (coupled with John 21:22-23). Underlined are the ones that show pretrib. Try that on your Instaverse!
skypair
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The broom represents believer, by the light of the Spirit, cleaning out his/her life looking for the coin. This is the middle of 3 parables showing how Christ, the Spirit, and God welcome back backslidden believers.DHK said:Are you familiar with the woman that had ten coins and lost one? She swept her house and found the missing coin. In the parable what does the broom represent?
In this parable, the "coin" (according to Dr Rogers) is one of 10 worn on a scarf across the forehead that the bride gets proving her faithfulness in marriage. (Ten is an interesting number here as many times 10 has to do with the church.). Missing one would be a sign that she had lost her salvation/marriage. So when she finds, she is elated, not because she was ever lost but because she now shows the proof!
skypair
Rufus_1611
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skypair said:Now there's a keen observation! My notion is that they don't mean to or don't understand their own motives but, indeed, they would rule us now by their judgments much like the Catholics. Sort of "God's police of our behavior."
skypair
We warn you that there is a judge that is going to judge you for the things done in your body, whether they be good or bad and somehow this is us passing judgment? I have no desire to judge the anti-accountability believers and I certainly have no desire to rule over them, for there would be no pleasure in the job.
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