The Mediatorial Kingdom

[agedman]

Stop making false accusations saying I do not believe the bible. Shame on you!

Is that all you can resort to to prove your point?

Show me what the scripture says about "thy kingdom come".

You will actually agree with the Scriptures? I pointed to the Revelation and you discredited that, so what are you going to do with other Scriptures I might present?

But you ask so,

Matthew 6
Repeated by Luke 11

Fulfilled in the future in that statements as a time line beginning in Revelation 19.

The history of your response will be to in some manner discredit the validity of Scripture and appoint some unfounded time line.

 

[prophecy70]

Show me what the scripture says about "thy kingdom come".

You will actually agree with the Scriptures? I pointed to the Revelation and you discredited that, so what are you going to do with other Scriptures I might present?

But you ask so,

Matthew 6
Repeated by Luke 11

Fulfilled in the future in that statements as a time line beginning in Revelation 19.

The history of your response will be to in some manner discredit the validity of Scripture and appoint some unfounded time line.

I simply asked you to link "thy kingdom come" to a future millennial kingdom which you said was concrete evidence. Which I do not see in Matthew 6 nor in Luke 11.
Where does it mention it?, I do not want to be falsely accused of not believing again.

And to show me where Christ is reigning on earth in Revelation.

You response was I don't believe scripture, so Im asking you to point it out to me.

 

[agedman]

I simply asked you to link "thy kingdom come" to a future millennial kingdom which you said was concrete evidence. Which I do not see in Matthew 6 nor in Luke 11.
Where does it mention it?, I do not want to be falsely accused of not believing again.

And to show me where Christ is reigning on earth in Revelation.

You response was I don't believe scripture, so Im asking you to point it out to me.

At this point, I don't think you would believe no matter what is shown.

How many threads and posts have been made, and not a single one have you taken seriously and can truthfully state you have placed Scripture over personal preference.

As Christ told the religious righteous of His day, search the Scriptures, they speak of me, but they did not acknowledge the truth.

Should I find you actually teachable, it might make a difference.

But there is no evidence that you can be taught but a lie has overcome you and which you prefer over the truth of Scriptures.

I'll leave you alone with two passages for you to search for truth. Both from the OT. For that is all the Scriptures the earliest church fathers had, and from which they were taught.

Psalm 72 - describes the rule of Christ on this earth.
Isaiah 11+ - much description concerning the events and the concerns of various nations.

However, you will no doubt be as those rulers and reject the truth, for that has been the demonstrated history by you on this topic.

Should you prove me wrong and recant from fellowship with the preterest camp, let me know.

 

[prophecy70]

At this point, I don't think you would believe no matter what is shown.

How many threads and posts have been made, and not a single one have you taken seriously and can truthfully state you have placed Scripture over personal preference.

As Christ told the religious righteous of His day, search the Scriptures, they speak of me, but they did not acknowledge the truth.

Should I find you actually teachable, it might make a difference.

But there is no evidence that you can be taught but a lie has overcome you and which you prefer over the truth of Scriptures.

I'll leave you alone with two passages for you to search for truth. Both from the OT. For that is all the Scriptures the earliest church fathers had, and from which they were taught.

Psalm 72 - describes the rule of Christ on this earth.
Isaiah 11+ - much description concerning the events and the concerns of various nations.

However, you will no doubt be as those rulers and reject the truth, for that has been the demonstrated history by you on this topic.

Should you prove me wrong and recant from fellowship with the preterest camp, let me know.

In other words you can not prove it, And must make it seem like I don't believe or do not want to listen, all you have stated is "thy kingdom come" is concrete evidence of a future millennium, and I simply asked where do you get that from?

I am not placing personal preference over scripture because you are the one that made a statement out to be fact, Im just asking a simple question,

show me in scripture where

Christ is reigning on this earth In Revelation
And the Link between thy kingdom come, and a literal physical reign of Jesus on this earth.

2nd peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Is that Before or After the "Millennium"?

 

[asterisktom]

In other words you can not prove it, And must make it seem like I don't believe or do not want to listen, all you have stated is "thy kingdom come" is concrete evidence of a future millennium, and I simply asked where do you get that from?

I am not placing personal preference over scripture because you are the one that made a statement out to be fact, Im just asking a simple question,

show me in scripture where

Christ is reigning on this earth In Revelation
And the Link between thy kingdom come, and a literal physical reign of Jesus on this earth.

2nd peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Is that Before or After the "Millennium"?

Good luck getting any coherent biblical response on that question. This was one of the first indicators to me that there was something correct about Preterism, the fact that detractors had no real Biblical replies to my questions. The answers were usually smug ones like agedmans or appeals to tradition and/or bandwagon consensus.

 

[Covenanter]

No, I don't. I didn't claim to list every detail and aspect of the Mediatorial Kingdom. Check Matthew 4:17 and 16:21 for starters. Failure to see the change contained in those verses will lead the reader into serious misunderstanding and confusion.

Where did I say there was no mediator between the exile and incarnation. I said there was no man, no human, mediator.

Where did I say the glorified Lord Jesus Christ was presently disqualified as a Mediator?

I have long been encouraged to listen to what preachers do NOT say, as well as what they DO say. Your statements about the Mediatorial Kingdom omit any reference to the Lord Jesus' present reign & present office as Mediator.

Those two statements - "The mediatorial kingdom is defined as...." - appear to be statements of your doctrine. Your silence on Jesus' present status indicates that because Jesus doesn't qualify according to your definition, he is presently disqualified as Mediator & that will change when there is an earthly millennial kingdom.

 

[agedman]

Good luck getting any coherent biblical response on that question. This was one of the first indicators to me that there was something correct about Preterism, the fact that detractors had no real Biblical replies to my questions. The answers were usually smug ones like agedmans or appeals to tradition and/or bandwagon consensus.

Hey, I wasn't being "smug."

The answers have all been given. Repeatedly.

Was there a rush to embrace the truth, or silly demands to detract and distract?

If in fact any edification was to be found, it may be worth the contention.

At my age, if the person is obstinate in their view, then I will remain awhile so that a none participant reader is not deceived or as long as the subject is of interest.

However, a broader question is seen in your post.

The assumption that preterism is correct because detractors "had no real Biblical replies."

That statement false in light of the great amount of threads on the subject and expanse of "real Biblical replies."

These threads have abounded with Biblical replies that are rejected by the preterist in favor of some scheme that has no historical nor Biblical foundation.

Preterism has been shown as neither historically accurate nor Biblically supported.

That is the truth, which the preteristic view also seems most short in supply.

 

[percho]

In other words you can not prove it, And must make it seem like I don't believe or do not want to listen, all you have stated is "thy kingdom come" is concrete evidence of a future millennium, and I simply asked where do you get that from?

I am not placing personal preference over scripture because you are the one that made a statement out to be fact, Im just asking a simple question,

show me in scripture where

Christ is reigning on this earth In Revelation
And the Link between thy kingdom come, and a literal physical reign of Jesus on this earth.

2nd peter 3
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

Is that Before or After the "Millennium"?

I think it is after.

I think the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night and that day will be as a thousand years, will be a thousand years, after which the balance will follow and then new heavens and new earth.

 

[percho]

And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Luke 11:2

And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. Luke 19:11-15

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Tim 4:1

Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Acts 17:31

Is that day in Acts 17:31 twenty fours or a thousand years?

Is kingdom in all above the very same kingdom?

By what, has he given men with which they are to occupy til he comes? Is in not gifts which come by the Holy Spirit?

“So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, Acts 15:8
“Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. V 14 Is it the Holy Spirit that marks them as a people for the name of God?

‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD,
Even (And) all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the LORD who does all these things.’[fn] V16,17

When will he return? After what?

After the giving of the Spirit to call out a people for his name? To occupy by the Spirit til he comes. And then, have rule over five cities?

The residue of men will seek not just the Lord but the lord and the gentiles who are called by his name. Those ruling with him.

Is God still today calling out a people for his name?

 

[Covenanter]

“So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, Acts 15:8
“Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. V 14 Is it the Holy Spirit that marks them as a people for the name of God?

‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD,
Even (And) all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the LORD who does all these things.’[fn] V16,17

When will he return? After what?

After the giving of the Spirit to call out a people for his name? To occupy by the Spirit til he comes. And then, have rule over five cities?

The residue of men will seek not just the Lord but the lord and the gentiles who are called by his name. Those ruling with him.

Is God still today calling out a people for his name?

James is quoting Amos with inspired variation. Amos had prophesied while Israel was still a kingdom that Israel would be destroyed, scattered among the nations, and restored.

Amos 1:1 The words of Amos, one of the shepherds of Tekoa – the vision he saw concerning Israel two years before the earthquake, when Uzziah was king of Judah and Jeroboam son of Jehoash was king of Israel.
.....
9: 11 ‘In that day
‘I will restore David’s fallen shelter –
I will repair its broken walls
and restore its ruins –
and will rebuild it as it used to be,
12 so that they may possess the remnant of Edom
and all the nations that bear my name,’
declares the Lord, who will do these things.

Acts 15:16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD,
Even (And) all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the LORD who does all these things.
​

After this? After the restoration (over 500 years after) the LORD rebuilt David's fallen line - of kings - by the birth of Jesus into David's family as prophesied. And as the risen King Jesus he commissioned his Apostles to proclaim the Gospel to the rest of mankind to seek the LORD.

James is endorsing what Paul & Peter have declared - the Gospel is not just for the Jews but for all the Gentiles who are called by My name.

 

[Covenanter]

God certainly is "still today calling out a people for his name."

 

[prophecy70]

Hey, I wasn't being "smug."

The answers have all been given. Repeatedly.

Was there a rush to embrace the truth, or silly demands to detract and distract?

If in fact any edification was to be found, it may be worth the contention.

At my age, if the person is obstinate in their view, then I will remain awhile so that a none participant reader is not deceived or as long as the subject is of interest.

However, a broader question is seen in your post.

The assumption that preterism is correct because detractors "had no real Biblical replies."

That statement false in light of the great amount of threads on the subject and expanse of "real Biblical replies."

These threads have abounded with Biblical replies that are rejected by the preterist in favor of some scheme that has no historical nor Biblical foundation.

Preterism has been shown as neither historically accurate nor Biblically supported.

That is the truth, which the preteristic view also seems most short in supply.

Im still asking scriptural support of your view,

Link Thy kingdom come to a literal millennium
Show me where Christ is on earth reigning during the millennium.

I don't understand all that time it took to write what you did, instead of just showing me the support of what you said was concrete information.

 

[agedman]

Im still asking scriptural support of your view,

Link Thy kingdom come to a literal millennium
Show me where Christ is on earth reigning during the millennium.

I don't understand all that time it took to write what you did, instead of just showing me the support of what you said was concrete information.

You apparently ignored the two portions of Scripture I posted, so, I’ll just pretend your really not interested.

And that way you can pretend to be happy in whatever you decide.

 

[prophecy70]

You apparently ignored the two portions of Scripture I posted, so, I’ll just pretend your really not interested.

And that way you can pretend to be happy in whatever you decide.

I did not ignore them. I replied saying I do not see the kingdom come nor a literal physical earthy millennium in them verses. And am asking you where you see it concretely.

 

[percho]

God certainly is "still today calling out a people for his name."

Are those who are still being called today, inclusive with those spoken of in Romans 8:23 as having the firstfruit of the Spirit and are awaiting something even better?

Did this firstfruit of the Spirit begin on a specific day following the resurrection of Jesus and were those being spoken of in Acts 15 :8,14 unto even still today? Isn't, the firstfruit of the Spirit, relative to Pentecost, the day of firstfruit of Numbers 28:26?

Is the day of firstfruit still ongoing?

What takes place, after this? After the day of firstfruit?


But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. Heb 12:22-24

Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever. Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: Jer 3:12,14 -----

Is someone being brought to Mt Zion by being given the firstfruit of the Spirit?

“So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, Acts 15:8

Go and proclaim these words toward the north,


What? After this?

Amos For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, <Gentiles?) like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
Ezek 36 And I scattered them among the heathen, <Gentiles) and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

Why did Paul go, North?

E 36: And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, <Gentiles?) which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen <Gentiles?) shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

The heathen, the residue of men will know because God has sanctified his name my taking out from among them a people for his name whom he had scattered among them.

When will they know that this has taken place? What takes place after the day of firstfruit when your weeks be out?

? Your kingdom come your will be done on earth as in heaven ?

BTW What is Satan doing today? What will Satan be doing then?

 

[agedman]

I did not ignore them. I replied saying I do not see the kingdom come nor a literal physical earthy millennium in them verses. And am asking you where you see it concretely.

That you "do not see the kingdom" as both literal and physical is why you accept what is untrue.

That is a basic psychological phenomena called "self deception." Along that same road is found such things as false consensus and false beliefs.

It is what Leon Festinger labeled "cognitive dissonance." Basically, a person will believe a lie despite all manner of facts presented.

This phenomena is very often seen on the BB. It is also why some have left the BB, and others stay around to mock and ridicule others on the BB.

Here is an illustration:

“A man with a conviction is a hard man to change,” Festinger, Henry Riecken, and Stanley Schacter wrote in When Prophecy Fails, their 1957 book about this study. “Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point … Suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before.”https://ia801405.us.archive.org/31/...iecken-Schachter-When-Prophecy-Fails-1956.pdf​

Do not be dismayed, this phenomena appears in nearly every thread on the BB.

In the Scriptures, it is very clearly seen as a growing curse encompassing the earth.

The writer of 2 Thessalonians declares that in time people will be swept up in believing a lie that they may be doomed.

I am not posting that you are doomed, but the conditions of the phenomena infest even the church, and is why more and more as one is confronted with the onslaught of hype and multimedia antics a believer must challenge what is represented by testing with Scriptures.

A literal and physical kingdom displayed in the earthly millennial reign is splashed all through OT prophecy, the Psalms, and a promise given by the Christ and His Apostles, yet such is disputed, disregarded, ignored, discredited, and scoffed. Despite the evidences presented, there is no change and no agreement.

It is classic cognitive dissonance.

 

[prophecy70]

That you "do not see the kingdom" as both literal and physical is why you accept what is untrue.

That is a basic psychological phenomena called "self deception." Along that same road is found such things as false consensus and false beliefs.

It is what Leon Festinger labeled "cognitive dissonance." Basically, a person will believe a lie despite all manner of facts presented.

This phenomena is very often seen on the BB. It is also why some have left the BB, and others stay around to mock and ridicule others on the BB.

Here is an illustration:

“A man with a conviction is a hard man to change,” Festinger, Henry Riecken, and Stanley Schacter wrote in When Prophecy Fails, their 1957 book about this study. “Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point … Suppose that he is presented with evidence, unequivocal and undeniable evidence, that his belief is wrong: what will happen? The individual will frequently emerge, not only unshaken, but even more convinced of the truth of his beliefs than ever before.”https://ia801405.us.archive.org/31/...iecken-Schachter-When-Prophecy-Fails-1956.pdf​

Do not be dismayed, this phenomena appears in nearly every thread on the BB.

In the Scriptures, it is very clearly seen as a growing curse encompassing the earth.

The writer of 2 Thessalonians declares that in time people will be swept up in believing a lie that they may be doomed.

I am not posting that you are doomed, but the conditions of the phenomena infest even the church, and is why more and more as one is confronted with the onslaught of hype and multimedia antics a believer must challenge what is represented by testing with Scriptures.

A literal and physical kingdom displayed in the earthly millennial reign is splashed all through OT prophecy, the Psalms, and a promise given by the Christ and His Apostles, yet such is disputed, disregarded, ignored, discredited, and scoffed. Despite the evidences presented, there is no change and no agreement.

It is classic cognitive dissonance.

Oh my, such a speech.

Luke 17:20
Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed,

 

[agedman]

Oh my, such a speech.

Luke 17:20
Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed,

And again, you conform to exactly that which fits my "speech."

Do you know the formation, from what reason, and that which is the sustained purpose behind what you hold as truth in relation to preterism?

 

[TCassidy]

Oh my, such a speech.

Luke 17:20
Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed,

LOL! WOW! Talk about out of context!

 

[prophecy70]

LOL! WOW! Talk about out of context!

Well enlighten me on the whole context of a Literal Physical Millennium.

Ill be waiting.