The Mohler Amendment to the SBC Constitution

[Ben1445]

I’m having trouble with my posting tonight. Ignore my waste of a post.

 

[Aaron]

Your response has zero Christian kindness or ethics in it. I now have a much clearer picture of your mentality.

Adultery is definitely abuse to the spouse who was cheated on.

Rape is certainly more than a woman regretting sleeping with a man.

You have no understanding of abuser psychology or how men in powerful authority positions can intimidate their victims. Some sex fiend pastors warn the women they exploit that if they reveal the ugly truth, it will ruin the pastor’s ministry and hundreds of people will lose their faith and go to hell.

Sometimes an abuse is so shocking, a victim can freeze emotionally and have trouble believing what happened. If they think they will be ridiculed or blamed for enticing a pastor, they can be slow to report it. Children especially can be mentally paralyzed and confused by abuse.

You simply hurl misogynist rhetoric at victimized women, belittling their suffering, so the patriarchal men can continue to denigrate women with their locker room humor.

You exemplify toxic masculinity.

Lol, I don't think there is a progressive tag you left out of that one.

More on that later.

 

[canadyjd]

Please. Adultery and fornication isn't abuse. Child sex abuse and rape aren't only abuse, they're crimes. If accusers aren't taking it to law, then it's not a "credible accusation."

Please. If it isn’t taken to the law, it isn’t credible? If a child doesn’t “take it to the law” it isn’t credible? Wow!!

And I don't buy the "hypnotized by power" or "shocked into submission" silliness, not in the IFB churches, and especially not in the SBC. Not with grown individuals. With children...actual children...that's a different thing.

You simply do not understand the mindset of predators. They look for people to abuse. They look for people that are vulnerable. They for people they can intimidate into silence.

No doubt, you will blame the victims for being so weak.

But what Feminists call "abuse" is every slightest absence of the most perfect grace and rectitude shown to them. If a man gets miffed, that's abuse. The preaching of biblical family and church dynamics is abuse.

I’m not an expert on what “feminists” believe. But you are equating differences of opinion concerning church polity with s:xual abuse. No one is making that argument but you.

A joke in the private men's forum is abuse.

If the private “joke” targets a particular woman known to the men, it is abuse. If the private “joke” degrades women in general, it is vulgar and condemned by scripture.

You can make the argument before God why it was funny, as we will all give an account of every word.

If a feminist regrets sleeping with a man, she was raped.

You seem to believe you are an expert in what “feminists” think. Are you a feminist?

Everything that makes a Feminist cry is rape and abuse.

Oh good grief!!

Peace to you

 

[Scarlett O.]

As you can see, they propose[d] to add the women thing right after the sexual abuse and racism disqualifications.

Seems they could have put it up in #1 with homosexuality?

Jerome, I believe that only men should pastor a church. Why? Because God said that is the way to do it.

With that being said, and I have said this here at the BB before, please do not lump Godly women in the same boat as homosexual men.

Homosexual men, who CAN be saved, are in their current state of practicing sodomy - an abomination before a holy God.

Godly, Christian women are not in that same category. If a religious political body is going to vote on not accepting women or homosexual men into the pastorate, for the sake of the truth, it must be done in a separate vote.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Rape is certainly more than a woman regretting sleeping with a man.

I agree. However, if the man in this instance is wrongfully accused of rape, he is defenseless.

 

[Ascetic X]

I agree. However, if the man in this instance is wrongfully accused of rape, he is defenseless.

Did you know that less than 20 percent of all sexual assaults are reported to police, due to some extent to the invasive and public nature of proceedings?

And rape cases are notoriously hard to try, in part because of the burden of proof; there are usually only two witnesses to the crime — the victim and the defendant. If the perpetrator swears it was consensual, it can be extremely hard to prove it was involuntary, especially if alcohol is involved.

 

[Foxmeister]

Did you know that less than 20 percent of all sexual assaults are reported to police, due to some extent to the invasive and public nature of proceedings?

And rape cases are notoriously hard to try, in part because of the burden of proof; there are usually only two witnesses to the crime — the victim and the defendant. If the perpetrator swears it was consensual, it can be extremely hard to prove it was involuntary, especially if alcohol is involve

Medical science will disagree with you on that. Next time, you see your doctor, ask.

 

[Ascetic X]

Medical science will disagree with you on that. Next time, you see your doctor, ask.

Medical science will disagree with what?

 

[Foxmeister]

Medical science will disagree with what?

That rape is extremely hard to prove.

 

[Foxmeister]

It's not clear to me what a 'discipleship pastor' is, but it's plainly not the same as a full-on pastor.
The women mentioned in Romans 16 did more than serve coffee. Churches need to be involving women in ministry, just not as pastors and/or preachers.
The fellowship to which my church is affiliated has a policy on this: Women in Ministry Ethos Statement - FIEC

The discipleship pastor builds the practical systems—such as small groups, Bible studies, and leadership pipelines—to help individuals grow from new visitors into mature, active followers of Christ.

The Bible does not say women cannot be involved in ministry. They just can't be pastors, deacons, or elders. The Bible is quite clear on that.

 

[Scarlett O.]

That rape is extremely hard to prove.

Brother, in many instances, rape is notoriously difficult to prove. It turns into a "he said", "she said" situation. If it's an underage situation with DNA evidence - yes, those can be proven. But women of age with no bruises and no bleeding and no witnesses - it can be very hard to prove - with or without DNA.

 

[Ascetic X]

That rape is extremely hard to prove.

You may want to look into the difficulties of proving it when both parties are legal age and the perpetrator claims it was consensual.

I feel sorry for those who are the victims.

Rape cases have extremely low conviction rates, with studies indicating that less than 10%—and in some estimates, under 4%—of reported sexual assaults result in a conviction, often due to high rates of reporting attrition and the challenges of disproving consent.

Only about 1 in 3 victims report to law enforcement, and for every 1,000 sexual assaults, only 25–28 perpetrators are ultimately incarcerated.

Cases often hinge on "he-said-she-said" scenarios, lacking physical evidence or witnesses, making it difficult to meet the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. Due to the invasive nature of the process and potential trauma, many victims disengage, which is a major cause of cases being dropped.

Even in jurisdictions with high police reporting, convictions remain rare.

This unfortunately encourages perpetrators to smugly continue committing this horrendous crime and indecently joke about it to their buddies at work and at the bar.

 

[Mikey]

The current discussion has moved from the tread topic, it would be best to return to discussing SBC and the amendment.

 

[Aaron]

Did you know that less than 20 percent of all sexual assaults are reported to police, due to some extent to the invasive and public nature of proceedings?

And rape cases are notoriously hard to try, in part because of the burden of proof; there are usually only two witnesses to the crime — the victim and the defendant. If the perpetrator swears it was consensual, it can be extremely hard to prove it was involuntary, especially if alcohol is involved.

Brother, in many instances, rape is notoriously difficult to prove. It turns into a "he said", "she said" situation. If it's an underage situation with DNA evidence - yes, those can be proven. But women of age with no bruises and no bleeding and no witnesses - it can be very hard to prove - with or without DNA.

These are no excuses for not taking it the law.

 

[Aaron]

Please. If it isn’t taken to the law, it isn’t credible? If a child doesn’t “take it to the law” it isn’t credible? Wow!!

You simply do not understand the mindset of predators. They look for people to abuse. They look for people that are vulnerable. They for people they can intimidate into silence.

No doubt, you will blame the victims for being so weak.

I’m not an expert on what “feminists” believe. But you are equating differences of opinion concerning church polity with s:xual abuse. No one is making that argument but you.

If the private “joke” targets a particular woman known to the men, it is abuse. If the private “joke” degrades women in general, it is vulgar and condemned by scripture.

You can make the argument before God why it was funny, as we will all give an account of every word.

You seem to believe you are an expert in what “feminists” think. Are you a feminist?

Oh good grief!!

Peace to you

It's evident that Feminists—male Feminists in this case—also have a tough time with reading comprehension. I clearly said it's a different thing with children. But the vast majority of the cases being alluded to don't involve children...actual children. (We're talking about Baptists, not the LDS style cults that pop up like weeds in Utah and elsewhere, so don't start citing Jim Jones, Branch Davidians, Catholics, Mormons, Wal-mart and public schools to try to say otherwise.)

Abuse is an easy accusation for women to make, and very difficult to defend oneself against considering the general prejudice on the side of women. The woman is automatically shielded from scrutiny and absolved from her part in the sin as well. But what Baptist woman hasn't heard the Seventh Commandment? And even if she hasn't, she's accountable.

And pursuit is not predation. It might be creepy, 2 Timothy 3:6, but it's not predation.

Time for a full response eludes me. More on this later.