The Monergist View of the Human Will

[loDebar]

Whatever will Jesus had, He submitted to the will of His Father.
Luk 22:42 KJV - Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

Freely to the Fathers will. It is our example

Conversely, Did Satan have a free will to sin?

 

[Revmitchell]

Christ was speaking to a specific group with a specific purpose...the Phrarisees wanted many kicked out of Israel because they didn't meet their "righteousness." The Lord was saying all who are God's (in Israel at that time) will follow the Son. Keep it in its historical context. Read John 9 and 10.

You do know that since you have opposed calvie doctrine you now must be destroyed.

 

[loDebar]

You do know that since you have opposed calvie doctrine you now must be destroyed.

That is the prevalent rule on this board

 

[Reformed]

Would it be fair to say that both groups believe the necessity of God intervening in the person's life prior to belief?

Actually, I have to amend my earlier answer to your post. The reason is your use of the word "intervene". See post #58 for my thoughts on the word "intervene".

 

[Reynolds]

No. I know some Synergists who believe it is possible for conversion to take place without the gospel being presented. One group I know of believes natural revelation is sufficient.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I know a famous Monergist who believed that.

 

[canadyjd]

Unfortunately, I have learned to question the motives of some posters on this board. You would think that honesty is an attribute that most BB members possess. Sadly, that is not the case.

The Monergist believes that a person must be made able to respond. The Synergist believes a person already has that ability. This is not a distinction without a difference. It goes to the heart of the disagreement. The Monergist believes the Holy Spirit regenerates the sinner and then the sinner responds to the Gospel call by faith. The Synergist believes the Gospel call is made and the sinner has the opportunity to accept or reject it. The Monergist believes that every person who is regenerated will believe. The Synergist does not believe regeneration precedes belief. Also, many Synergists will disagree with your premise that God must first intervene. They would not consider the Gospel call an intervention against the free will of the creature. These may seem like mere nuances, but they are not.

You said the synergists believe the Gospel call is made and the sinner has the opportunity to accept or reject it. Does the monergists not believe this?

As for God's intervention, I spoke with someone on this board some years ago who was adamant that the "elect" need not exercise faith to be saved. He stated that if the elect person never heard the gospel and never had faith, they would still go to heaven.

From what you have stated, I suspect you have more common belief with most synergists than you do with that person.

 

[JonShaff]

I know a famous Monergist who believed that.

@tyndale1946 believes that.

 

[Reformed]

You said the synergists believe the Gospel call is made and the sinner has the opportunity to accept or reject it. Does the monergists not believe this?

No.

As for God's intervention, I spoke with someone on this board some years ago who was adamant that the "elect" need not exercise faith to be saved. He stated that if the elect person never heard the gospel and never had faith, they would still go to heaven.

Faith is a gift from God (Eph. 2:8-9). While the unregenerate sinner does not have faith, regeneration produces it. The individual then exercises that faith by believing.

From what you have stated, I suspect you have more common belief with most synergists than you do with that person.

I would not put a wager on that.

 

[canadyjd]

No.

Faith is a gift from God (Eph. 2:8-9). While the unregenerate sinner does not have faith, regeneration produces it. The individual then exercises that faith by believing.


I would not put a wager on that.

I want to be sure I understand you. You are saying that monergists do not believe the Gospel is presented and the sinner has the opportunity to accept or reject?

Also, are you saying that the "elect" do not have to have faith in Jesus to be saved?

 

[Reformed]

I want to be sure I understand you. You are saying that monergists do not believe the Gospel is presented and the sinner has the opportunity to accept or reject?

Correct.

 

[canadyjd]

Correct.

Ok, could you explain Paul's assertion in 1 Cor. that God was well pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe?

 

[Reformed]

Ok, could you explain Paul's assertion in 1 Cor. that God was well pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe?

Sure. First, understand that the Monergist believes in something called the effectual call. The 1689 Second London Baptist of Faith explains it this way:

10.1 Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.

Passages to consider are Rom. 8:30; Eph. 1:10; 2 Thes. 2:13-14; Eph. 2:1-6 et. al.

The verse you did not fully reference is 1 Cor. 1:21:

1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

The Gospel is the means of salvation. God has ordained the preaching of the Gospel as the means (or method) of calling His elect. If you look closely at verses 18-19; 24; 27-28 you will see God's calling clearly revealed. Those that believe the foolishness of the message preached are those whom God has effectually called to eternal life.

 

[canadyjd]

Sure. First, understand that the Monergist believes in something called the effectual call. The 1689 Second London Baptist of Faith explains it this way:

10.1 Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God; taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them a heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ; yet so as they come most freely, being made willing by his grace.

Passages to consider are Rom. 8:30; Eph. 1:10; 2 Thes. 2:13-14; Eph. 2:1-6 et. al.

The verse you did not fully reference is 1 Cor. 1:21:

1 Corinthians 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

The Gospel is the means of salvation. God has ordained the preaching of the Gospel as the means (or method) of calling His elect. If you look closely at verses 18-19; 24; 27-28 you will see God's calling clearly revealed. Those that believe the foolishness of the message preached are those whom God has effectually called to eternal life.

Ok, that is clear. The gospel is preached and the person accepts or rejects, right?

Or, do you believe the Gospel is only for the elect?

 

[Rockson]

They take and twist Romans 1:19 to try to make it say what it does not. That verse is talking about knowing God exists, but as Romans 1:23 plainly says, they take that knowledge and then attribute God's work, and His glory, to some sort of idol, whether it be a mortal man, birds, four-footed animals, or reptiles.

And this poster misses the whole point of Rom 1: 18-20 for the the whole conclusion of the text is why men are without excuse. Men see all of creation and that alone God says should be the thing that sparks at least a seeking of God. Instead of seeking God these particular groups would suppress the truth which they were NOT FORCED to do. If they were they'd HAVE EXCUSE.

 

[canadyjd]

Later in the 1 Cor passage, Paul tells us of a two-fold purpose of the gospel preached. To some, it brings life. To others, it brings death.

The gospel is preached and sinners accept or reject.

 

[Reformed]

Ok, that is clear. The gospel is preached and the person accepts or rejects, right?
Or, do you believe the Gospel is only for the elect?

Slow your roll, hombre. The Gospel is preached to all, although there are some people on the Monergist side who fall into the error of Hyper-Calvinism. Hyper-Calvinism has no textbook definition, but it is commonly accused of teaching that the Gospel is only to be preached to the Elect. One problem with that view is none of us possess perfect knowledge. Only God knows who is part of the Elect. Ergo, the Gospel is to be proclaimed to all. The real question to ask is whether all can believe the Gospel. The answer to that is a resounding "No!". Only the Elect will believe. But once again, since we do not know who the elect are, we plead with all men to be reconciled to God (2 Cor. 5:20).

 

[Rockson]

Any agreement with Luther or another author is only relevant to the degree it supports the biblical position. This thread is meant to posit the Monergist position. Monergists believe the human will of the unregenerate person is in bondage (slavery) to sin. The will is not free by the very nature of it being in bondage. The will of the Christian is free from the bondage of sin, but it still serves another master. Romans 6:17-18 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Problem is you don't prove the will of a person is in bondage yes even quoting very true verses that the unsaved are slaves to sin. People in bondage by their free will may want deliverance and want change.

 

[Reformed]

Problem is you don't prove the will of a person is in bondage yes even quoting very true verses that the unsaved are slaves to sin. People in bondage by their free will may want deliverance and want change.

I guess we will just have to disagree. Have a pleasant evening.

 

[Rockson]

Dead people can do nothing to save themselves!

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Acts 2:40

 

[Reformed]

Whenever the topic starts to turn towards predestination, election, and the free offer of the gospel, I like to point people to C.H. Spurgeon's work, "A Defense of Calvinism". While I am able to string together a few sentences on occasion, I am a poor wordsmith when compared to the "Prince of Preachers". I highly recommend you read Spurgeon's work for a better treatment on this topic than I am able to offer.