The Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ

[Darrell C]

Just so everyone knows...I am not responding to this member.

The denial of scripture is the hallmark of false doctrine.
We were made sinners. To deny it is to deny scripture.
Those God transfers into Christ are made righteous.

Its a false argument and is just reiteration of confusion on the part of this member concerning the imputation of righteousness.

Apparently he believes we are "made righteous" in a practical sense, but then, his posts are often so vague I am not sure anyone knows what it is he is trying to say.

By the numbers:
1) The gospel of Christ was mentioned in the Old Testament, but not presented clearly, thus the gospel of Christ had been a mystery within the Old Testament.

As well as the New, for we do not see the Mystery of the Gospel revealed until the Comforter is sent.

Now if by "Old Testament" this member means the Ages preceding this one, the Age of Grace, then he would be correct. But again, too vague to know.

2) But in the New Testament, the Gospel of Christ was presented clearly, and is no longer a mystery to those who accept what scripture says rather than rewrite it according to some man-made doctrine.

The Gospel was presented clearly in the Old Testament, Isaiah 53 being a good example, however, what was lacking was the enlightenment of God in regards to the knowledge of Christ. All spiritual knowledge is revealed by God to man, there is no other means by which men can understand anything spiritual.

3) Part of the Gospel is we were chosen for salvation through faith in the truth.

No need to impose Systematic Theology, the very doctrines of man this member complains about above...into the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Here is the Gospel:


1 Corinthians 15
King James Version (KJV)

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


Here is the Gospel as delivered by Christ:


Matthew 16
King James Version (KJV)

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.


No man or woman needs to know they were chosen to be saved through Christ.

4) Part of the Gospel is we were made righteous through the blood of Christ

Incorrect: the Gospel reveals through the power of the Holy Spirit that we can be made righteous through the Blood of Christ.

And that is a positional standing before God when we are saved. Born again believers will still fall short of the glory of God and sin.

It is man's doctrine that breaks the Gospel into "parts," so it is not surprising when we see such fractured Soteriology.

5) Part of the Gospel is Christ died for all mankind, a truth partially revealed in the Old Testament.

On the contrary, no part of the Gospel was revealed in the Old Testament, that is the point of Paul's teaching.

A "Mystery" is an unrevealed truth, and when it is revealed, it revealed to the "initiated." Meaning...only the Church has had the Mystery revealed to them.

This is a personal revelation from God directly to the heart of the believer, and this revelation takes place through the ministry of the Comforter.

Again, I wasn't responding to this member, so please, don't tell him I did.




God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

ALL who have ever been saved, whether in OT or NT, were saved on the basis of the Cross of Christ,

Sorry, no. All who were ever saved were redeemed by the Cross, which, when they lived and died...they knew nothing about.

So bring me your Scripture, Yeshua1, that supports your pulpit theology.

and them having faith in what was revealed to them by God concerning that event.

Are you a Catholic? They too like to preach men are saved by the Cross...and something else.

Here you are teaching that men are saved by the Cross and their faith.

That is pulpit theology: Men are saved by faith through grace.

The OT saints looked forward, while we have the greater revelation knowledge, and look back to the Cross.

Paul would disagree with you.

No man was privy to the Mystery, no, not one.

Its really a measure of just how much revelation God was granting towards His own in which time in history here...

That is correct. And if you reread the thread you will find more than enough Scriptural Support to show why your Christ Plus theology is in error.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Your mistake, and it is a weird one, is that you believe that the entire gospel was a mystery. How embarrassing, this is what they mystery was:

Eph_3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs,

Boom, mystery over and that was not the entire gospel. Now do I have to break it down an explain what "fellow heirs" means to you?

Before I respond to this post, which I will do immediately after I post this one, I wanted to ask you to respond to the points already made.

And my friend, I think you might want to be careful about talking about someone being embarrassed. Here you are, and I am assuming a man in ministry, and it seems you have missed some pretty basic knowledge in Scripture.

Now that is what I call embarrassing.


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

So where does scripture delineate these two natures?

Paul mentioned that there was still in Him the principle of Sin after saved, and that the old nature was at war in his members, in the flesh, and that he relied upon the Holy Spirit to enable him to overcome that

 

[Darrell C]

Your mistake, and it is a weird one, is that you believe that the entire gospel was a mystery.

Well, let's take a look at Scripture, then you can tell me just how "weird" it is, lol.

We will start with the first reference of the Mystery that gives us understanding of it:


Romans 16:25-26
King James Version (KJV)

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:


We see here...

1. The revelation of the Mystery;
2. The mystery was kept secret since the world began;
3. The Mystery is now made manifest;
4. The Mystery is no made manifest to all Nations.

All means all. It doesn't say "...made known to all nations except Israel."

Now, this is the first passage that I give to support my position, so explain why the Mystery was not kept secret since the world began, and then we can look at some more of Paul's teaching.


Continued...

 

[Yeshua1]

Sorry, no. All who were ever saved were redeemed by the Cross, which, when they lived and died...they knew nothing about.

So bring me your Scripture, Yeshua1, that supports your pulpit theology.




Are you a Catholic? They too like to preach men are saved by the Cross...and something else.

Here you are teaching that men are saved by the Cross and their faith.

That is pulpit theology: Men are saved by faith through grace.




Paul would disagree with you.

No man was privy to the Mystery, no, not one.




That is correct. And if you reread the thread you will find more than enough Scriptural Support to show why your Christ Plus theology is in error.


God bless.

All sinners are saved by Grace alone, received thru faith alone, but the basis, the grounds of God saving anyone has always been the Cross and atonement of Christ!

 

[Revmitchell]

Paul mentioned that there was still in Him the principle of Sin after saved, and that the old nature was at war in his members, in the flesh, and that he relied upon the Holy Spirit to enable him to overcome that

Why did Paul call it an old nature. What was old about it?

 

[Revmitchell]

All means all. It doesn't say "...made known to all nations except Israel."

Now, this is the first passage that I give to support my position, so explain why the Mystery was not kept secret since the world began, and then we can look at some more of Paul's teaching.


Continued...

I never said it wasn't kept a secret

 

[Darrell C]

How embarrassing

You can tell me after you actually understand the Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I can only assume that it is.

this is what they mystery was:

Eph_3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs,

Boom, mystery over and that was not the entire gospel. Now do I have to break it down an explain what "fellow heirs" means to you?

Not a Boom! lol, more like a dud.

Let's look at your limited proof-texting a little closer:


Ephesians 3
King James Version (KJV)

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


Don't feel bad, you are among the majority who also limit the Mystery to Gentile Inclusion, despite the fact that he makes a very simple statement, that the Mystery of Christ was not made known in other Ages to the sons of men, which, by the way...speaks of all men. Secondly, it is now revealed to His holy Apostles and Prophets.

You have got your work cut out for you. Its going to be very difficult for you to convince anyone that you are right and Paul is mistaken.


Continued...

 

[Yeshua1]

Why did Paul call it an old nature. What was old about it?

The nature that he was born with....

 

[Darrell C]

I never said it wasn't kept a secret

You did. You just don't understand that is what you are teaching.

How embarrassing.




God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Boom, mystery over

lol

We haven't even scratched the surface, and here you are claiming victory because you post one proof text and do not even understand its' broader context.

and that was not the entire gospel.

Now you have to back-pedal, because your mind is already telling you, "Wait a minute, something's not right here."

I can tell you what is not right, what is not right is that you cannot impose an understanding of Christ into even His Own Disciples, much less men like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Moses, or David.

You think the woman at the well understood that Christ would die for her?

Let's look at the "belief of the Disciples for a minute. And I will show you another passage you have probably read many times, and again, missed a very basic truth:


Mark 16:9-14
King James Version (KJV)

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.

11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.

14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.


It's right there in the text: the disciples did not believe the Lord had risen from the grave, as He told them He would.

Now, let me throw at you something to consider: if you think men like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and David could be "saved" because they sat in expectation of Messiah, then guess who else you are also going to have to say is saved?

Every Jew who rejects Jesus Christ yet is awaiting Messiah's coming.

Do you believe that they are?

Now do I have to break it down an explain what "fellow heirs" means to you?

Go for it, if you think it is relevant, after having been given the fuller context which shows the Mystery of Christ was not revealed in past Ages to the sons of men.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

All sinners are saved by Grace alone, received thru faith alone, but the basis, the grounds of God saving anyone has always been the Cross and atonement of Christ!

If you don't mind, I would appreciate if you would work out your theology in another thread.

You give the impression that you are always guessing as to whether what you say is right or not.

If you want to talk about the topic of this thread, feel free to do so.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

I never said it wasn't kept a secret

As I said, you did:

What you have done is set up an unbiblical standard "go into Genesis" to show that Abraham understood this. I will tell you that it is not necessary to go into Genesis to show you this as it is never addressed there, however I can prove it elsewhere in scripture:

John 4:25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.”

Luk_24:44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

Luk 24:25 And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Luk 24:26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?”
Luk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

Not sure why that has to be explained.

Well?

Start explaining.

Address the posts.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

I skipped over most of the last 7 pages so someone probably mentioned this.

There are IMO 2 "mysteries" (formerly unrevealed truth) of the gospel.

1) That the promised messiah - deliverer/restorer from sin - would be God come in the flesh.
2) The gentiles would be full recipients of the messianic promise.

If you read the thread the need for guesswork will diminish tremendously, I promise you.

While there are several mysteries revealed by Paul, there is only one Mystery of the Gospel of Christ.

To name a few, one is the Rapture. Another is that Israel would be blinded.

But the Mystery of Christ is exclusive to the Gospel and the results of Salvation, which, extends to the indwelling of God in the believer:


Colossians 1:23-27
King James Version (KJV)

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


Most theologians limit the Gospel to Gentile Inclusion, the problem being that if we do that, then we create the unbiblical necessity that Israel had already been in the process of Reconciliation, and we know that is not true for numerous irrefutable reasons. Here are a few to consider:

1. Both Jew and Gentile are made one in Christ, and that began post-Cross;
2. No Jew, even the Disciples of Christ...had the eternal indwelling of God (John 14 makes that clear, as the Lord Prophesies of it occurring after He returns to Heaven);
3. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, which negates the possibility it took place prior.


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

If you don't mind, I would appreciate if you would work out your theology in another thread.

You give the impression that you are always guessing as to whether what you say is right or not.

If you want to talk about the topic of this thread, feel free to do so.


God bless.

Is there any other grounds that saves any sinner apart from the atoning work of Jesus upon the Cross though?

 

[Darrell C]

Again, the messiah was not a mystery.

Again? Who said He was?

The title of the Thread is "The Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ," not the Mystery of the Messiah."

Each of these knew of the promise of redemption and such was NOT hidden, but looked forward to as a promise by God through the law and the prophets.
Elizabeth:
“Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”Zachariah:
“76And you, my child, will be called a prophet of the Most High; for you will go on before the Lord to prepare the way for him,
77to give his people the knowcledge of salvation through the forgiveness of their sins,
78because of the tender mercy of our God,”Simeon:
29“Sovereign Lord, as you have promised, you may now dismissd your servant in peace.
30For my eyes have seen your salvation, 31which you have prepared in the sight of all nations: 32a light for revelation to the Gentiles, and the glory of your people Israel.”If the Scriptures to the Jews were a benefit, as all the law and prophets do, they point to both a redeemer and ruler messiah. A delivering messiah from both physical and spiritual oppression.

Doesn't change the fact that the Gospel of Christ was a Mystery not revealed to men in Past Ages:


Colossians 1:23-27
King James Version (KJV)


25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

What WAS hidden from the prophets and the law was that there would be a “church.”

Something was hidden from the Law?

Not so. The Law clearly presents Christ and what we need to understand is that while we can look back and place that into a proper context, the Old Testament Saint could not look forward and do so.

That is why the disciples of Christ were still unbelievers both before and after His Resurrection.

The great assembly of all believers from all time

The reason no-one knew there would be a Church is because they did not understand what the Gospel would entail.

That is the “mystery of the Gospel.”

It is relevant, but the Mystery of the Gospel of Christ concerns all that is relevant. Beginning first with the death, burial, and Resurrection of Christ, and then extended to the results, which includes Atonement, Reconciliation, Eternal union with God through eternal indwelling, glorification, and everlasting communion with God in the Eternal State.

Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Is there any other grounds that saves any sinner apart from the atoning work of Jesus upon the Cross though?

According to you there is...faith.

We are saved by grace through faith, not saved by grace and faith.

Go and learn what that meaneth.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Not that the Gospel was the mystery, but the mystery OF the gospel.

Perhaps you should study the subject before presenting theories.

The Gospel was THE Mystery.

This thinking and posting that the message and work of Christ was in some manner a hidden secrete from the ancients is false.

Again, you need to study before publicly posting.

I have given numerous texts showing precisely what you call...false.

Here is another one:


1 Corinthians 1:21-24
King James Version (KJV)

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.



1 Corinthians 2
King James Version (KJV)

1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.


You are in fact calling the teaching of Scripture false.

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


Continued...

 

[HankD]

KJV John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.