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The Nature of the Church, OT and NT
- Thread starter John of Japan
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I don't see "spiritual Israel" there. And I believe the Jerusalem in Heaven is a real, physical place--the New Jerusalem of Rev.
Um, yeah, in the margin.
Would anyone care to actually address the OP and my point that the characteristics of the NT church are nowhere seen in any OT setting? If not, this thread is a total win for me. 
I'm not holding my breath. It would seem that many (most?) of the posters in this thread have committed the root fallacy by insisting the meaning of the word εκκλησια is based on its etymology rather than (correctly) seeing that the meaning of the word, at the time it was given in the bible, should be understood by its philology.Well said. But don't expect any interaction from individuals who have already convinced themselves (in their ignorance).
Dr. Clearwaters used to tell us that a man could not claim good Theology or claim to be a Theologian until he mastered both the etymology and philology of the words in the bible.
In fact he strongly encouraged us to purchase our own personal copies of the Oxford English Dictionary which contains a thorough philological section defining the meaning of the word in common usage.
I bought the "compact" edition (only two huge volumes 12" by 16" and each volume about 4" thick) with four pages shrunk down and put on a single page (they even provided a magnifying glass to read it). It is still available from Amazon for $399 (or used from around $50). The full size 20 volume set is only $1118 plus tax, shipping and handling, of course.
Dr. Clearwaters....strongly encouraged us to purchase our own personal copies of the Oxford English Dictionary which contains a thorough philological section defining the meaning of the word in common usage. I bought the "compact" edition (only two huge volumes 12" by 16" and each volume about 4" thick) with four pages shrunk down and put on a single page (they even provided a magnifying glass to read it). It is still available from Amazon for $399 (or used from around $50). The full size 20 volume set is only $1118 plus tax, shipping and handling, of course.
The entire Oxford English Dictionary is also available online.
I've cited it here numerous times, however 'InTheLight' has said of it:
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Jesus Christ is the personal name of the triune God. Just as YHWH is.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
In King Saul's case this is true.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
How can the eternal triune God change? In Jesus (the man) dwelt the fullness of the triune Godhead.
Would anyone care to actually address the OP and my point that the characteristics of the NT church are nowhere seen in any OT setting? If not, this thread is a total win for me.
Do you accept the converse where the OT Israel is a type of the Church, the body of Christ ?
NO, Jesus is the name for God the Son Only!
Its the church being prefigured, just as Jesus picked 12 Apostles to represent Spiritual israel!
the fulness of God, but not the Father or the Holy Spirit, as he is seperate and distince from them!
I think Paul was speaking of Jews who were physical born only, and Jews now aspiritually born also!
I agree with you that the Church started in the NT, but also do see OT saints as being part of it, included into it by God...Would anyone care to actually address the OP and my point that the characteristics of the NT church are nowhere seen in any OT setting? If not, this thread is a total win for me.
Wish I could have taken classes from him.
Wow, I'm jealous! But why didn't you buy the whole 20 volumes--as a young student?In fact he strongly encouraged us to purchase our own personal copies of the Oxford English Dictionary which contains a thorough philological section defining the meaning of the word in common usage.
I bought the "compact" edition (only two huge volumes 12" by 16" and each volume about 4" thick) with four pages shrunk down and put on a single page (they even provided a magnifying glass to read it). It is still available from Amazon for $399 (or used from around $50). The full size 20 volume set is only $1118 plus tax, shipping and handling, of course.
No, because this misunderstands the nature of a type, which uses an historical person or event as an illustration. (The Greek word tupos is sometimes translated as "example" or "ensample.") An institution or nation is not really a type.
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So OT saints were baptized in the name of Jesus and celebrated the Lord's Supper? And some of them were pastors and deacons? And they met on Sunday to celebrate the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ?
No, they are included into the body of Christ because they were saved same way we all were, but the death/resurrection of jhesus christ on their behalf!
He was a brilliant man. He had a Masters in New Testament Greek, having studied under Edgar Goodspeed, and, like Dr. Cedarholm, completed his work for a Ph.D. but found himself in dire financial straits and never completed his dissertation. But he did have the teaching of such greats as Robert Dick Wilson, R.A. Torrey, G. Campbell Morgan, Griffith Thomas and Billy Sunday to help shape his ministry.
Well, a thousand dollars was a little out of my price range. Okay, okay! Ten dollars would have been out of my price range! Look up "starving student" in the dictionary and all you will see is a picture of me!
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