Nuked!?! You can’t be serious. An escalation of military might along the lines of scorched earth, turn up the heat … Yes, but nuked. Remember there are civilians living there.
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The New Afghanistan
- Thread starter SGO
- Start date
Thank you Joe Biden!
Yes it would make us look like genocidal maniacs.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
Ever heard of the PKI Indonesian communists? Of whom Wikipedia being a Leftist dogma site takes a sympathy view towards...
Real number is closer to the 2 million killed figure quoted, not hundreds of thousands, back in 1965-66. Likely what happened there most people are totally unaware.
During the night of 30 September and 1 October 1965, six of Indonesia's top army generals were killed and their bodies thrown down a well. The generals' killers announced the following morning that a new Revolutionary Council had seized power, calling themselves the "30 September Movement" ("G30S"). With much of the army's top leadership dead or missing, General Suharto took control of the army and put down the abortive coup by 2 October. The army quickly blamed the coup attempt on the PKI, and began an Indonesia-wide anti-Communist propaganda campaign. Evidence linking the PKI to the generals' assassinations is inconclusive, leading to speculation that their involvement was very limited or that Suharto organised the events (in whole or in part) and scapegoated the communists.[21] In the ensuing violent anti-communist purge, an estimated 500,000 communists (real and suspected) were killed and the PKI effectively eliminated. General Suharto outmaneuvered Sukarno politically and was appointed president in 1968, consolidating his influence on the military and government.
On 2 October, the Halim base was recaptured by the army. Although Harian Rakyat carried an article in support of the G30S coup, the official PKI line at the time was that the attempted coup was an internal affair within the armed forces. On 6 October, Sukarno's cabinet held its first meeting since 30 September; the PKI minister Njoto was in attendance. A resolution denouncing G30S was passed, and Njoto was arrested immediately after the meeting.
A mass demonstration was held in Jakarta two days later demanding a ban on the PKI, and the party's main office was burned down. On 13 October, Ansor Youth Movement (the youth wing of Nahdlatul Ulama) held anti-PKI rallies across Java. Five days later, Ansor killed about a hundred PKI members.
Between 100,000 and two million Indonesians were killed in the mass killings that followed.[22] The victims included non-Communists who were slain because of mistaken identity or guilt by association. Although a lack of information makes it impossible to pinpoint an exact casualty figure, many scholars today suggest that the figure is at least 500,000.[22][23][24] According to a CIA study of the events in Indonesia, "In terms of the numbers killed the anti-PKI massacres in Indonesia rank as one of the worst mass murders of the 20th century".[25][26]
The United States played a significant role in the killings, supplying economic, technical and military aid to the Indonesian military when the killings began and providing "kill lists" (via the U.S. embassy in Jakarta) with the names of thousands of suspected high-ranking members of the PKI.[26][27][28][29][30][31] A tribunal held in the Hague in 2016 concluded the massacres were crimes against humanity, and the U.S. backed the Indonesian military "knowing well that they were embarked upon a programme of mass killings".[32] Declassified U.S. diplomatic cables released in 2017 corroborate this.[4][33] According to UCLA historian Geoffrey B. Robinson, the Indonesian army's campaign of mass killings would not have occurred without the support of the U.S. and other powerful Western governments.[31] Documentary filmmaker Joshua Oppenheimer, director of The Act of Killing and The Look of Silence, said:
We know that U.S. embassy officials were compiling lists of thousands of names of public figures in Indonesia and handing these to the army and saying, 'Kill everybody on these lists and check off the names as you go, and give the lists back to us when you’re done'.[34][35]
Time magazine presented the following account on 17 December 1965:
Communists, red sympathizers and their families are being massacred by the thousands. Backlands army units are reported to have executed thousands of communists after interrogation in remote jails. Armed with wide-bladed knives called parangs, Moslem bands crept at night into the homes of communists, killing entire families and burying their bodies in shallow graves.
The murder campaign became so brazen in parts of rural East Java, that Moslem bands placed the heads of victims on poles and paraded them through villages. The killings have been on such a scale that the disposal of the corpses has created a serious sanitation problem in East Java and Northern Sumatra where the humid air bears the reek of decaying flesh. Travelers from those areas tell of small rivers and streams that have been literally clogged with bodies.[36]
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War is war. Different set of rules .
Anyone want to deal with our intentional waging of war against civilians in WWII, the last war we won.
Pay close attention to the bombing campaigns in the Berlin area. Civilians targeted in areas with no military value. At first, U S. Objected and Britain did it alone. When we saw how well it worked, we jumped in with all bombers blazing.
Reasons ere sound.
Our enemies would not have banded together, they would have hidden like rats.
Russia would have given their blessing and most likely helped us out.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
International terrorism found a base of support again in Afghanistan. Taliban do not agree that they, or their Al-Qaida friends are terrorists. They still deny Osama Bin Laden responsible for bombing WTC.
Because of Biden, our world is a more dangerous place for more of our people than it was. I am sure some of them are plotting renewed attacks against US.
My POV, the Taliban are Afghanistani Islamic terrorists in their own country, but they support other groups that export terror. It is a part of the Islamic faith to export terror to infidel nations.
I doubt it. There was not a strong case for actually declaring war on Afghanistan.
Yes it is a different set of rules. Most of which you seem to be completely unaware of. Most importantly, we weren’t actually at war.
Strong enough.
We should have declared war. I am speaking of Biblical rules of war. Man made rules of war only apply to the loser. Since WW2, we have managed to lose every war we fought because we fought by rules.
This nation became militarily great when we adhered to The Sherman Doctrine of Total Warfare.
I see both you and @JonC still avoiding how we won WW2.
No. They would have. We did (without declaring war on Afghanistan) replace its government (the Taliban). We attacked its former government (the Taliban). Yet nothing was gained.
Al-Qaeda's attacked us and we went to "war" on terrorism. The Taliban was terroristic (to its own people) and Afghanistan was/is a breading ground for terrorists (as is the entire area).
But there was no legitimate reason to declare war on Afghanistan.
It was political- President Obama's "war".
Sure....if you are a Democrat. It was "Obama's war".
Yes there was. The attack originated from their borders. The government's act of allowing terrorists to operate with safety made the govt complicit and the nation responsible.
You mean how we ended WW2. The war had already been won but it was dragging out.
Deal with the incendiary bombing and the carpet bombing of German civilian centers.
Then discuss the nukes if you like.
And President Obama for getting us there in the first place.
Its not The 1940’s anymore.
Let’s really send a message to the world. Let’s line up all the Capitol insurrectionists and have them shot. Ya know, really send a message right.
Targeting civilians is never moral.
And you are talking about murdering people to get at a group of terrorists that did not (at the time) attack the US.
So, you don't want to deal with WW2.