The new Charles Finney?

[SolaSaint]

http://www.wcnc.com/news/iteam/How-...ck-produce-spontaneous-baptism-246072001.html

Do we see similar tactics to Steven Furtick's spontaneous baptisms? What do you all think, scriptural or manipulation?

I have seen this type of manipulation before in revivals by the man who used to dress like Jesus and walk the church isles and ask people to follow him. Prior to the services he would demand several members of the church to get up and follow him first to make it easier for lost people to come forward.

 

[Revmitchell]

What does this have to do with Finney?

 

[SolaSaint]

Rev, from what I have read in your posts I will assume you like Finney. That is OK, but I feel he started what many view as a downgrade in America away from good reformed theology and soteriology. His was more of a manipulation of emotions instead of allowing God's word and Holy Spirit to to bring faith and justification through preaching. Getting people all worked up and emotional has a real danger in bringing about false converts. I would have nothing to do with that.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Rev, from what I have read in your posts I will assume you like Finney. That is OK, but I feel he started what many view as a downgrade in America away from good reformed theology and soteriology. His was more of a manipulation of emotions instead of allowing God's word and Holy Spirit to to bring faith and justification through preaching. Getting people all worked up and emotional has a real danger in bringing about false converts. I would have nothing to do with that.

Do these people not know that this is a dog & pony show? Im beginning to think that church people are either effeminate or severely stupid.

 

[Revmitchell]

First America has never been predominantly reformed. I have no idea where anyone gets such an idea. Second, running away from emotion is contrary to scripture. When you repent of your sin how in the world do you not get emotional? Have you not ever been overwhelmed with the HG? I have and I can assure you it is quite emotional.


Emotion does not equal manipulation. No wonder reformed churches are small and dry. Lack of emotion means a dead church.

 

[prophet]

Rev, from what I have read in your posts I will assume you like Finney. That is OK, but I feel he started what many view as a downgrade in America away from good reformed theology and soteriology. His was more of a manipulation of emotions instead of allowing God's word and Holy Spirit to to bring faith and justification through preaching. Getting people all worked up and emotional has a real danger in bringing about false converts. I would have nothing to do with that.

People aren't " convicted" unto Salvation, by the presence of a Spirit filled man. They still must hear the Word, and believe.
Our presence gives credence to the Word we speak, our faith is the evidence to others that God is real.
But the Holy Spirit doesn't come on them, until they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe that Finney was the beginning of apostasy in the US.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

People aren't " convicted" unto Salvation, by the presence of a Spirit filled man. They still must hear the Word, and believe.
Our presence gives credence to the Word we speak, our faith is the evidence to others that God is real.
But the Holy Spirit doesn't come on them, until they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe that Finney was the beginning of apostasy in the US.

How do you hear the word if your deaf or if your brain damaged?

 

[JohnDeereFan]

http://www.wcnc.com/news/iteam/How-...ck-produce-spontaneous-baptism-246072001.html

Do we see similar tactics to Steven Furtick's spontaneous baptisms? What do you all think, scriptural or manipulation?

I have seen this type of manipulation before in revivals by the man who used to dress like Jesus and walk the church isles and ask people to follow him. Prior to the services he would demand several members of the church to get up and follow him first to make it easier for lost people to come forward.

Furtick is a 1st class heretic. This is the least of his problems.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Furtick is a 1st class heretic. This is the least of his problems.

The last name says it all.:laugh:

 

[prophet]

How do you hear the word if your deaf or if your brain damaged?

The deaf hear and speak with their eyes and hands, no? And the brain damaged cant tell us what they understand, so supposing, without evidence, is futile.

Have you never seen God heal a lost person, so that they could hear the Gospel?
Why is it that we can believe that someone can have faith with no hearing (a miracle, were it so), but not that God will heal someone, so that they can hear (a miracle often done by God)?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The deaf hear and speak with their eyes and hands, no? And the brain damaged cant tell us what they understand, so supposing, without evidence, is futile.

Have you never seen God heal a lost person, so that they could hear the Gospel?
Why is it that we can believe that someone can have faith with no hearing (a miracle, were it so), but not that God will heal someone, so that they can hear (a miracle often done by God)?

That was my questiion to you. But you insist that one must hear the gospel........hear by what means? Then what is the gospel anyway? Does someone need to spoon feed it to me before I can believe?

 

[prophet]

That was my questiion to you. But you insist that one must hear the gospel........hear by what means? Then what is the gospel anyway? Does someone need to spoon feed it to me before I can believe?

Good news. News is received. It is communicated. It is preached. It is taught. It is read. It is seen.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Good news. News is received. It is communicated. It is preached. It is taught. It is read. It is seen.

Not to everyone.....that's the point.

 

[SolaSaint]

First America has never been predominantly reformed. I have no idea where anyone gets such an idea. Second, running away from emotion is contrary to scripture. When you repent of your sin how in the world do you not get emotional? Have you not ever been overwhelmed with the HG? I have and I can assure you it is quite emotional.


Emotion does not equal manipulation. No wonder reformed churches are small and dry. Lack of emotion means a dead church.

How do you feel about Furtick? Do you think he is what is needed in the chuich today? DO you feel gimmicks are the answer to get someone saved? And yes I do feel this country was reformed at our beginnings. Everyting I have read says so.

 

[SolaSaint]

http://www.bible-researcher.com/sproul1.html

Read this article to see where Finney's theology was misguided. Sadly we have many Finney's in pulpits all over America today. Many reverence him when he should be forgotten.

 

[InTheLight]

http://www.wcnc.com/news/iteam/How-...ck-produce-spontaneous-baptism-246072001.html

Do we see similar tactics to Steven Furtick's spontaneous baptisms? What do you all think, scriptural or manipulation?

Once again, you need to read the source material. You give knee-jerk reactions based on pre-conceived ideas. Yes, Furtick's church has an invitation for people to be baptized. At the onset of the invitation up to 15 church worker people leave their seats and come forward. Their purpose is to come to the front and help direct the HUNDREDS of other people who come forward.

Really, all it would take to put this issue to bed is to see an invitation. If hundreds of people spontaneously get up at the first part of the invitation and go forward for baptism, then there is no manipulation. If these 15 people slowing get up, one-by-one and wend their way down to the front and only after they've reached the front do others come forward, then yes, possible manipulation.

I presume you are of reformed theology. If so, here, ONCE AGAIN we have a Calvinist judging people.

Why are people so quick to judge others' efforts to evangelize sinners and mobilize Christians to good works?

 

[JonC]

Reminds me of a “Leap of Faith” (Steve Martin movie) for some reason.

 

[Rippon]

No wonder reformed churches are small and dry.

We all know you have a strongly anti-Calvinistic agenda RM,but really -- you need to get out more. Where do you come up with your many false conclusions?

 

[preachinjesus]

You may or may not like Furtick's theology and ministry...but he's not a heretic.

He has a questionable method of baptism. When his practice is probed by learned and wise leaders of his own convention they get branded "haters" and are not responded to by him or anyone in his church.

His church is growing and has some of the highest baptism numbers the SBC (his convention) has ever seen. I've heard several stories about people who have been transformed by his ministry...in good ways.

At this point I'm taking a Philippians 1 position that I may not care for his methodology, but I do rejoice in the life change that is taking place in his assembly. There are many ethical issues with him, and several other celebrity pastors (such a terrible thing that we have these) in the US right now. However, he preaches the Gospel and it is the same Gospel lots of us are used to hearing every Sunday.

He's not a heretic. That is a misunderstanding of what it means to be a heretic.

 

[quantumfaith]

You may or may not like Furtick's theology and ministry...but he's not a heretic.

He has a questionable method of baptism. When his practice is probed by learned and wise leaders of his own convention they get branded "haters" and are not responded to by him or anyone in his church.

His church is growing and has some of the highest baptism numbers the SBC (his convention) has ever seen. I've heard several stories about people who have been transformed by his ministry...in good ways.

At this point I'm taking a Philippians 1 position that I may not care for his methodology, but I do rejoice in the life change that is taking place in his assembly. There are many ethical issues with him, and several other celebrity pastors (such a terrible thing that we have these) in the US right now. However, he preaches the Gospel and it is the same Gospel lots of us are used to hearing every Sunday.

He's not a heretic. That is a misunderstanding of what it means to be a heretic.

Solid and reasoned post in contrast to some who become too "emotional" when someone differs from any model that they suppose everyone should have.
I don't know Furtick, thus I will refrain from commenting.