Bit of a pickle.
Jesus has not taken "the WRATH we deserved" Eternal Separation from God.
Great, so you think Christ is eternally separated from God.
Could you quote one Catholic that embraces your teaching, Utilyan?
You said:
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I view the idea that we "spiritually died on the Cross with Christ" a fallacious popular teaching not supported by Scripture.
If that were the case then we would preach "We died for sins" rather than He died for the sins of the world.
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Scripture says we died with him
So you died for the sins of the world.
Great, could you quote a Catholic that agrees with you?
2 Corinthians 5
14For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died;
15and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
Note what it actually states, Utilyan:
One died for all.
Note: Him Who died and rose again
on their behalf.
Note:
He died for all.
Not: we all died for the sin of the world.
We are the world, He is the Savior. And if the song gets stuck in your head...serves you right!
Romans 6
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5For if we have become united with
Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be
in the likeness of His resurrection,
6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with
Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7for he who has died is freed from sin.
Note the difference between dying
to sin and dying
for sin.
Its funny Paul thinks "WE WHO DIED TO SIN" and you think "If that were the case then we would preach "We died for sins" rather than He died for the sins of the world."
Note the difference between dying
to sin and dying
for sin.
I don't think Paul taught this, I know he did. It's right there for you to also know.
Maybe you should answer Paul's questions?
Paul isn't asking me, lol, he's telling me.
Now I am trying to tell you what he said.
You confuse dying to sin with dying for sin, and create a flase concept, no, rather, as I said, you perpetuate a false concept many people embrace.
Hear, o Utilyan, there is One God, and besides Him there is no other Savior.
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
I do. The difference being...I actually understand what being Baptized into Christ actually means.
Again it refers to His vicarious death on behalf of you...a sinner.
Not some mythological error that we were with Christ when He died on that Cross.
A good leader has lots of followers, A great leader makes leaders of others.
And my only intention is to glorify Christ.
But, while we are on the subject, we could examine your leader, the Catholic Church, and consider just how far you have departed from Catholic teachings. If you don't mind, please quote Catholic teaching that teaches man participated in the Remission of sins and Reconciliation Christ accomplished. Show me where Catholic teaching equates our being dead with Christ with Christ dying with us, rather than for us.
Mary, maybe, lol, you could probably find some Catholics who embrace the equally false concept of the Co-Redemptrix.
I think someone took their humility a notch into false humility can't accept our unity with Jesus. So its like they keep trying to put the curtain/veil that divided us from God back up.
Which shows you are not familiar with the views I present on a regular basis, for I consistently teach that the Veil we go through is...
...Christ alone:
Hebrews 10:18-20
King James Version (KJV)
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Secondly, unity with God is in fact being baptized into Christ. This is reconciliation between God and man that was accomplished by Christ through His Work...
...alone.
If you ever work through this error of thinking you died on the Cross with Christ, perhaps we might discuss it.
God bless.
