The New Eve; "the mother of my Lord" [Luke 1:43]

[Walpole]

Their village called then brothers and sisters, their neighbors, but others had the same names but their village knew them all from childhood

Precisely! For once again, in Jewish antiquity, "brother" had a much wider meaning than we moderns use. You are forcing a modern Westernized concept of a family unit (i.e. a nuclear family) onto an ancient Hebrew / Semitic (tribal) culture. The ancient Hebrews did not view family in this manner.

Here are scholars affirming this...

"The units comprising the village mispahah, or kinship group, were the families of early Israel. Because these families were agriculturists, their identity and survival were integrally connected with their material world - more specifically, with their arable land, their implements for working the land and processing its products, and their domiciles - as well as with the human and also animal components of the domestic group. In many ways, the term family household is more useful in dealing with early Israelite families (although that would not be the case for the monarchical period and later, when domestic unites were more varied in their spatial aspects and economic functions). Combining family, with its kingship meanings, and household, a more flexible term including both coresident and economic functions, has descriptive merit. The family household thus included a set of related people as well as residential buildings, outbuildings, tools, equipment, fields, livestock, and orchards; it sometimes also included household members who were not kin, such as "sojourners", war captives and servants." - Families in Ancient Israel: The Family in Early Israel, Carol Meyers, pgs. 13-14


In describing early archaeological excavation of homes in Israel...


"These dwelling clusters constitute evidence for a family unit in early Israel larger than that of the nuclear family (or conjugal couple with unmarried offspring). Each pillared house in a cluster may represent the living space of a nuclear family or parts thereof, but the shared courtyard space and common house walls of the linked buildings indicate a larger family grouping. Early Israelite dwelling unites were thus complex arrangements of several buildings and housed what we might call extended families. Furthermore, thee compound dwelling unites were not isolated buildings within a settlement of single-family homes." - Ibid, pg. 16


"The family was never so 'nuclear' as it is in the modern West." - Families in Ancient Israel: Marriage, Divorce and Family in Second Temple Judaism, John J. Collins, pg. 106

---> Source

 

[Oseas3]

There are other reasons we are 'obliged' by faith to honor our spiritual mother, the Queen of Heaven. Christ was of the line of David; His genealogy was carefully laid out in Scripture. The royal line of kings in the House of David had many wives. Their function was to bear sons and successors to the throne. The title of Queen however fell on the woman who was called Gebirah in Hebrew. Gebirah means Queen Mother and is used to define the King's principal counselor.

Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad. Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him. (Psalm 45:6-11, KJV) [source: ]​

Luke testifies when our Lord claimed His Kingdom, reporting Christ saying, "This day is fulfilled this scripture in your ears" Luke 4:15-21. The Messianic role of King and God is filled by the person Jesus Christ on that very day. To suggest otherwise, to suggest that his kingdom does not include those of us here on earth simply denies the very Word of God, i.e. heresy.

Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:31-33)​

His mother then takes her rightful role as Gebriah in the House of David. Assuming the role of Gebriah as Queen Mother she advocated for the people, swaying the King to have mercy. Mary stood by his right hand throughout His ministry on Earth and remains our advocate here on Earth and at His right hand in heaven dispensing His grace.

"Let Heaven sustain me in its embrace, because I am honored above it. For heaven was not Thy mother, but Thou hast made it Thy throne. How much more honorable and venerable than the throne of a king is her mother." And in another place he thus prays to her: ". . . Majestic and Heavenly Maid, Lady, Queen, protect and keep me under your wing lest Satan the sower of destruction glory over me, lest my wicked foe be victorious against me."[Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Ad Caeli Reginam, c. S. Ephraem, Hymni de B. Maria, ed. Th. J. Lamy, t. II, Mechliniae, 1886, hymn. XIX, p. 624.; c. Idem, Oratio ad Ssmam Dei Matrem; Opera omnia, Ed. Assemani, t. III (graece), Romae, 1747, pag. 546]​

We see quite clearly then as the Council of Ephesus Mary is Mother of God whose rightful place is the right hand of her Son as Queen Mother of Heaven who sits on the throne of heaven as our Lord.

In denying Mary Mother of God, Queen of Heaven we deny Christ is the Son of God and the promised Messiah.

JoeT

THE BEAST FROM THE SEA - REVELATION 13:v.1-10
The Beast from the sea(from the midst of the Gentile peoples)is the ruler and guide of the ANCIENT religion that developed within the URE-Universal Roman Empire of the Caesars, and first used the term "Catholic Church", literally meaning "Universal Church". And now is known as Roman Catholic Church, actually the body of Satan in the Earth in these last two thousand years or two Days in accord 2Peter 3:v.8.

The mystical religious MONSTER and blasphemer Beast and his representatives here on earth through their satanic church - the Roman Catholic Church - uses the Bible to deceive the people manifesting themselves apparently as if they were of God saying to be a Vicar, Son of God or Vicarius Filii Dei, when in fact they are the body of the Devil with its 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns on the 7 heads, actually a religious MONSTER.(Revelation 12:v.3).

THE SEVEN (7) HEADS - 7 MOUNTAINS - TERRITORIAL AND SPIRITUAL STRUCTURES OF THE FIRST BEAST AND OF THE WOMAN THAT RIDES UPON THE BEAST - THE RCC

As it is written, the seven heads of the FIRST Beast are 7 mountains on which the Woman - the Roman Catholic Church - sits, it means that the TERRITORIAL STRUCTURES of the Woman - the RCC - was built and is established on this seven mountains. Why was written the 7 heads are 7 mountains? Now, now, it's because at that time or near two thousand years ago the Earth was not known as it is known today, evidently, AT THAT TIME were known only Asia (1) , and Europe(2) , and Africa(3) . Oceania(Australia)(4), and North America(5), and Central America(6), and South America(7) were not known at that time.

SPIRITUAL STRUCTURES OF THE FIRST BEAST AND OF THE WOMAN - THE RCC
It is written that the Woman - the Roman Catholic Church - sits also upon many waters (nations) as is written in Rev.17:v.15: - 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the WHORE sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

As we all can see, besides the TERRITORIAL STRUCTURES of the WHORE identified in the Scriptures as 7 MOUNTAINS, there is also her SPIRITUAL STRUCTURES within the nations of her TERRITORIAL STRUCTURES, so let us be sure that the HEAD of the Beast which will be wounded to death is in the spiritual sense and not territorial, of course, and this prophecy will fulfil LITERALLY from now on, and the HEAD which will be wounded mortally is South America, beginning by the country named Brazil. The Roman Catholic Church, the Whore, which rides upon the Beast of 7 heads and 10 horns enthroned in Rome, in the Vatican City.

THERE ARE SEVEN KINGS IN THE SPIRITUAL STRUCTURES OF THE WHORE - THE RCC

Who are the 7 "Kings"? The 7 kings are a lineage of Popes. But why does Revelation call these leaders and religious guides of the Roman Catholic Church as "kings" . Remember: The things revealed in the book of Revelation were written around the year 100, the function or the title "Pope" was not yet used at that time, understand?

And who are these 7 "kings" , and what are the NAME of each one of them in the religious hierarchy of the idolater Church of the Beast, the Roman Catholic Church? I will say who are them and their NAMES as follow:

These 7 "Kings" are of a lineage of Popes nicknamed as Paulus, as follow:

Paulus I - 29 May 757 – 28 June 767 - (10 years, 30 days)
Paulus II - 30 August 1464 – 26 July 1471 - (6 years, 330 days)
Paulus III - 13 October 1534 – 10 Nov 1549 - (15 years, 28 days)
Paulus IV - 23 May 1555 – 18 Aug 1559 - (4 years, 87 days)
Paulus V - 16 May 1605 – 28 Jan 1621 - (15 years, 257 days)
Paulus VI - 21 June 1963 – 6 Aug 1978 - (15 years, 46 days)

Paulus VII - This seventh "king" and last Pope is not yet come; and when he cometh, he MUST continue a short space, i.e. 42 months or 1,260 days, no more, no more, as it is determined by the written Word of God-Revelation 13:v.5-, the Word is God.

Note: We are in the year 2,019 in accord Christian calendar. The prophecy of Revelation is very advanced in the time, today we can and MUST say that the above SIX of the 7 "kings" have fallen, it means, they already died. And are destined to eternal perdition, to the hell's fire.

Let's see then the true Catholic Christians are not those who are not forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, [this is a special meat] which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving [Eucharist means thanks giving] by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth." [1 Timothy 4:3]. That doesn't describe Catholicism. can you tell us who it looks more like?

Then if you forbid "real meat" i.e. the "Real Presence in the Eucharist" we know form vs 1 and 2 it is "giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils, Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared". Giving heed" means "give ample or due consideration". Seems more ominous for those who refuse real meat [that wouldn't be a Catholic, who every day all day serve the "Real Presence"] - that is according to Sacred Scripture.

JoeT

 

[Oseas3]

Let's see then the true Catholic Christians are not those who are not forbidding to marry, to abstain from meats, [this is a special meat] which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving [Eucharist means thanks giving] by the faithful, and by them that have known the truth." [1 Timothy 4:3]. That doesn't describe Catholicism. can you tell us who it looks more like?

Then if you forbid "real meat" i.e. the "Real Presence in the Eucharist" we know form vs 1 and 2 it is "giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils, Speaking lies in hypocrisy, and having their conscience seared". Giving heed" means "give ample or due consideration". Seems more ominous for those who refuse real meat [that wouldn't be a Catholic, who every day all day serve the "Real Presence"] - that is according to Sacred Scripture.

JoeT

THE EUCHARIST

The Eucharist is a worship celebrated by idolaters according to the doctrine of woman, the Great Whore, the Roman Catholic Church, and what they do is just a diabolical dissimulation of celebration made by the Lord JESUS did in memory of His death hanged on the cross the Devil was preparing for Him.

By the way, JESUS is the Son of God, but the cross is of the Devil that was CURSED by the Most High God since the beginning. The cross is a trophy of the CURSED Devil(Genesis 3:v.14) as whether he had defeated the Son of God. Everywhere there is a cross like in temples and tombs, or anywhere, there is the curse, it is cursed, and it is idolatry.

Every religious ceremony performed by the idolaters is a disguised imitation, a sorcerie, it is a celebration made by the spirit of the Devil. It has nothing to do with the Spirit of God the Father, nor of Jesus, nor of the Holy Spirit, but the spirit of Devil, the father of lie. The eucharist celebrated by demons is a source of disease, serious illness, death, and all sorts of misfortunes that happen in people's lives around the Earth.

Eucharist made by the Roman Catholic Church is witchcraft, sorcery, a celebration of idolaters and a cult of demons. Babylon the Great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Actually all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Well, they will be cast into the hell and will be burned with everlasting fire, the hell's fire.

Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her PLAGUES.

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (made them by Him) and LORD of the lords

 

[JoeT]

The Eucharist is a worship celebrated by idolaters according to the doctrine of woman, the Great Whore, the Roman Catholic Church, and what they do is just a diabolical dissimulation of celebration made by the Lord JESUS did in memory of His death hanged on the cross the Devil was preparing for Him.

By the way, JESUS is the Son of God, but the cross is of the Devil that was CURSED by the Most High God since the beginning. The cross is a trophy of the CURSED Devil(Genesis 3:v.14) as whether he had defeated the Son of God. Everywhere there is a cross like in temples and tombs, or anywhere, there is the curse, it is cursed, and it is idolatry.

Every religious ceremony performed by the idolaters is a disguised imitation, a sorcerie, it is a celebration made by the spirit of the Devil. It has nothing to do with the Spirit of God the Father, nor of Jesus, nor of the Holy Spirit, but the spirit of Devil, the father of lie. The eucharist celebrated by demons is a source of disease, serious illness, death, and all sorts of misfortunes that happen in people's lives around the Earth.

Eucharist made by the Roman Catholic Church is witchcraft, sorcery, a celebration of idolaters and a cult of demons. Babylon the Great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. Actually all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Well, they will be cast into the hell and will be burned with everlasting fire, the hell's fire.

Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her PLAGUES.

In Christ JESUS, KING of kings (made them by Him) and LORD of the lords

I see from your post, you have a great deal of difficulty with ritual. While I don't know you, I'm quite sure you are full of 'ritual'. I bet you say the apostles creed 'ritualistically'. Did you ever say the Lord's prayer more than once, ritual. Did you ever read the same verse more than once, ritual. Do you read scripture 'ritualistically' - maybe you better not answer that one. Either yes or no puts you in deep.

I see you have difficult with imagery, from which I would guess you do not carry a picture of your spouse or family with you; after all that would be idolatry.

Where do you get the idea that the Eucharist is witchcraft. Didn't Jesus Christ say "Do this"? And what do you not do, "this"? Seems strange to me, is this being "Christian"?

Yes Jesus Christ is King of Kings, and the king's mother is the queen. Our Lord rules over heaven and earth, His queen is beside Him.

JoeT

 

[JoeT]

THE BEAST FROM THE SEA - REVELATION 13:v.1-10
The Beast from the sea(from the midst of the Gentile peoples)is the ruler and guide of the ANCIENT religion that developed within the URE-Universal Roman Empire of the Caesars, and first used the term "Catholic Church", literally meaning "Universal Church". And now is known as Roman Catholic Church, actually the body of Satan in the Earth in these last two thousand years or two Days in accord 2Peter 3:v.8.

The mystical religious MONSTER and blasphemer Beast and his representatives here on earth through their satanic church - the Roman Catholic Church - uses the Bible to deceive the people manifesting themselves apparently as if they were of God saying to be a Vicar, Son of God or Vicarius Filii Dei, when in fact they are the body of the Devil with its 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns on the 7 heads, actually a religious MONSTER.(Revelation 12:v.3).

THE SEVEN (7) HEADS - 7 MOUNTAINS - TERRITORIAL AND SPIRITUAL STRUCTURES OF THE FIRST BEAST AND OF THE WOMAN THAT RIDES UPON THE BEAST - THE RCC

As it is written, the seven heads of the FIRST Beast are 7 mountains on which the Woman - the Roman Catholic Church - sits, it means that the TERRITORIAL STRUCTURES of the Woman - the RCC - was built and is established on this seven mountains. Why was written the 7 heads are 7 mountains? Now, now, it's because at that time or near two thousand years ago the Earth was not known as it is known today, evidently, AT THAT TIME were known only Asia (1) , and Europe(2) , and Africa(3) . Oceania(Australia)(4), and North America(5), and Central America(6), and South America(7) were not known at that time.

SPIRITUAL STRUCTURES OF THE FIRST BEAST AND OF THE WOMAN - THE RCC
It is written that the Woman - the Roman Catholic Church - sits also upon many waters (nations) as is written in Rev.17:v.15: - 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the WHORE sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

As we all can see, besides the TERRITORIAL STRUCTURES of the WHORE identified in the Scriptures as 7 MOUNTAINS, there is also her SPIRITUAL STRUCTURES within the nations of her TERRITORIAL STRUCTURES, so let us be sure that the HEAD of the Beast which will be wounded to death is in the spiritual sense and not territorial, of course, and this prophecy will fulfil LITERALLY from now on, and the HEAD which will be wounded mortally is South America, beginning by the country named Brazil. The Roman Catholic Church, the Whore, which rides upon the Beast of 7 heads and 10 horns enthroned in Rome, in the Vatican City.

THERE ARE SEVEN KINGS IN THE SPIRITUAL STRUCTURES OF THE WHORE - THE RCC

Who are the 7 "Kings"? The 7 kings are a lineage of Popes. But why does Revelation call these leaders and religious guides of the Roman Catholic Church as "kings" . Remember: The things revealed in the book of Revelation were written around the year 100, the function or the title "Pope" was not yet used at that time, understand?

And who are these 7 "kings" , and what are the NAME of each one of them in the religious hierarchy of the idolater Church of the Beast, the Roman Catholic Church? I will say who are them and their NAMES as follow:

These 7 "Kings" are of a lineage of Popes nicknamed as Paulus, as follow:

Paulus I - 29 May 757 – 28 June 767 - (10 years, 30 days)
Paulus II - 30 August 1464 – 26 July 1471 - (6 years, 330 days)
Paulus III - 13 October 1534 – 10 Nov 1549 - (15 years, 28 days)
Paulus IV - 23 May 1555 – 18 Aug 1559 - (4 years, 87 days)
Paulus V - 16 May 1605 – 28 Jan 1621 - (15 years, 257 days)
Paulus VI - 21 June 1963 – 6 Aug 1978 - (15 years, 46 days)

Paulus VII - This seventh "king" and last Pope is not yet come; and when he cometh, he MUST continue a short space, i.e. 42 months or 1,260 days, no more, no more, as it is determined by the written Word of God-Revelation 13:v.5-, the Word is God.

Note: We are in the year 2,019 in accord Christian calendar. The prophecy of Revelation is very advanced in the time, today we can and MUST say that the above SIX of the 7 "kings" have fallen, it means, they already died. And are destined to eternal perdition, to the hell's fire.

Got down to a mathematical mumbo jumbo have you? How many 7's in 49? What is the cube root of 9? phi is 1.6 so maybe round the astrological constant of pi Paulus II is only 86 years. Is there anywhere in here for the Truth = God?

Since you've got it all by numerological science, what will tomorrow be like - got a big day at the office maybe I should wear my good suit?

JoeT

 

[church mouse guy]

Mary was the greatest woman ever to live but Eve was more beautiful because she was created perfect. Mary was still a sinner and died and was buried as everyone else has been. Mary's parents were sinners, too, and they died and were buried.

 

[robycop3]

So when you die you are in a soul sleep limbo land? Or will you be alive in heaven, in Christ?

Ni, I'll be in PARADISE, the area of hades where the souls of the righteous dead go. You should pay attention to what JESUS said. He told the repentant thief on the cross, "Today, you shall be with Me in PARADISE."

 

[robycop3]

Verse please.

No, YOU need a verse to show Mary didn't just live & die,same as everyone else.

 

[robycop3]

Did I say she was 'Divine', anything else but creature. Our Lord is King of heaven and earth, consequently are in the same Kingdom. We pray to Mary to intercede on our behalf with Jesus Christ just as we would ask our neighbor to pray for us to intercede on our behalf. If we are to become adopted sons and daughters of God, then Christ is our brother which makes Mary our mother in a spiritual sense. It would be a very hard hearted mother who doesn't care about her children.

Jesus Christ cares what happens here, as does Mary His mother.

JoeT

Mary is in paradise; she doesn't know (or care) what transpires here. Prayers to her don't go past the ceiling.

 

[robycop3]

Do you think the Mother of Jesus Christ is dead? Like all those in heaven doesn't she have eternal life? Or is heaven the end of it all; we die on earth only to die in heaven?

JoeT

She's not in heaven; she's in PARADISE.

 

[church mouse guy]

She's not in heaven; she's in PARADISE.

Isn't that a distinction without a difference at this time?

Do American Catholics even have a good record on the treatment of women? They seem to be proponents of high taxes and big welfare and forcing women to work. They still have homosexual rapist McCarrick living in a Catholic property in Kansas. Now the Vatican in the upcoming Amazon Synod is thought to be calling for the ordination of women.

 

[robycop3]

That verse says nothing about Mary having six other children.

In Jewish antiquity, "brother(s)" had a much wider meaning than we moderns use. There is NO scripture which identifies another as a son (or daughter) of Mary. Thus, any claim that Jesus had uterine siblings is one completely foreign to Scripture and the regula fidei of Christianity.

How goofy!

The men of Nazareth believed Jesus was just an ordinary man, not the Son of God. James + John + Joses + Jude + sisters(plural) adds up to at least SIX.

Those men were saying Jesus was just one of several siblings & nothing special. So here, they were speaking of other children Mary had.

 

[robycop3]

Isn't that a distinction without a difference at this time?

Do American Catholics even have a good record on the treatment of women? They seem to be proponents of high taxes and big welfare and forcing women to work. They still have homosexual rapist McCarrick living in a Catholic property in Kansas. Now the Vatican in the upcoming Amazon Synod is thought to be calling for the ordination of women.

Paradise is an area of hades. It's NOT the abode of God. Look up the Greek for both heaven & paradise-entirely-different words.

We must pay attention to what JESUS said. In His parable of the rich man & the beggar Lazarus, the rich man went to the "torments" area of hades, while Lazarus went to the paradise area. And Jesus told the repentant thief on the cross, "Today, you shall be with Me in paradise."(not "heaven")

 

[church mouse guy]

Paradise is an area of hades. It's NOT the abode of God. Look up the Greek for both heaven & paradise-entirely-different words.

We must pay attention to what JESUS said. In His parable of the rich man & the beggar Lazarus, the rich man went to the "torments" area of hades, while Lazarus went to the paradise area. And Jesus told the repentant thief on the cross, "Today, you shall be with Me in paradise."(not "heaven")

Yeah, but Abraham's bosom is now closed.

 

[Walpole]

No, YOU need a verse to show Mary didn't just live & die,same as everyone else.

What does a verse stating Mary died have to do with your claim that she had six other children?

Verse please.

 

[Walpole]

How goofy!

The men of Nazareth believed Jesus was just an ordinary man, not the Son of God. James + John + Joses + Jude + sisters(plural) adds up to at least SIX.

Those men were saying Jesus was just one of several siblings & nothing special. So here, they were speaking of other children Mary had.

What is "goofy" is forcing a modern Westernized concept of a family unit (i.e. a nuclear family) onto an ancient Hebrew / Semitic (tribal) culture. The ancient Hebrews did not view family in this manner. Thus, you skew the text by applying modern concepts to ancient cultures, thereby skewing the meaning of the text.

Scripture does say Jesus had brothers (and sisters). However, Scripture explicitly shows they were not uterine brothers. As I stated in my previous post, the term "brother" in Jewish antiquity had a much broader meaning than a uterine or agnate sibling. This is plainly evident by the fact that the Gospels tell us that James, John, Joses and Jude were the sons of Mary of Cleophas. Thus, they cannot be uterine siblings of Jesus based on the fact that St. Matthew and St. John name a different Mary as their mother.

---> Matthew 27:56
---> John 19:25

 

[loDebar]

Precisely! For once again, in Jewish antiquity, "brother" had a much wider meaning than we moderns use. You are forcing a modern Westernized concept of a family unit (i.e. a nuclear family) onto an ancient Hebrew / Semitic (tribal) culture. The ancient Hebrews did not view family in this manner.

Here are scholars affirming this...

"The units comprising the village mispahah, or kinship group, were the families of early Israel. Because these families were agriculturists, their identity and survival were integrally connected with their material world - more specifically, with their arable land, their implements for working the land and processing its products, and their domiciles - as well as with the human and also animal components of the domestic group. In many ways, the term family household is more useful in dealing with early Israelite families (although that would not be the case for the monarchical period and later, when domestic unites were more varied in their spatial aspects and economic functions). Combining family, with its kingship meanings, and household, a more flexible term including both coresident and economic functions, has descriptive merit. The family household thus included a set of related people as well as residential buildings, outbuildings, tools, equipment, fields, livestock, and orchards; it sometimes also included household members who were not kin, such as "sojourners", war captives and servants." - Families in Ancient Israel: The Family in Early Israel, Carol Meyers, pgs. 13-14


In describing early archaeological excavation of homes in Israel...


"These dwelling clusters constitute evidence for a family unit in early Israel larger than that of the nuclear family (or conjugal couple with unmarried offspring). Each pillared house in a cluster may represent the living space of a nuclear family or parts thereof, but the shared courtyard space and common house walls of the linked buildings indicate a larger family grouping. Early Israelite dwelling unites were thus complex arrangements of several buildings and housed what we might call extended families. Furthermore, thee compound dwelling unites were not isolated buildings within a settlement of single-family homes." - Ibid, pg. 16


"The family was never so 'nuclear' as it is in the modern West." - Families in Ancient Israel: Marriage, Divorce and Family in Second Temple Judaism, John J. Collins, pg. 106

---> Source

no, the village knew the family from birth as brothers and sisters of Jesus

why do you see Mary deified? is that in scripture?

 

[Walpole]

no, the village knew the family from birth as brothers and sisters of Jesus

Exactly! For once again, in Jewish antiquity, "brother" had a much wider meaning than we moderns use. You are forcing a modern Westernized concept of a family unit (i.e. a nuclear family) onto an ancient Hebrew / Semitic (tribal) culture. The ancient Hebrews did not view family in this manner.

The Gospels themselves testify to this, as the Scriptures do say Jesus had brothers (and sisters). However, Scripture explicitly shows they were not uterine brothers. For the Gospels tell us that James, John, Joses and Jude were the sons of Mary of Cleophas. Thus, they cannot be uterine siblings of Jesus based on the fact that St. Matthew and St. John name a different Mary as their mother.

---> Matthew 27:56
---> John 19:25


Here again is proof from scholars / history / archaeology...

"The units comprising the village mispahah, or kinship group, were the families of early Israel. Because these families were agriculturists, their identity and survival were integrally connected with their material world - more specifically, with their arable land, their implements for working the land and processing its products, and their domiciles - as well as with the human and also animal components of the domestic group. In many ways, the term family household is more useful in dealing with early Israelite families (although that would not be the case for the monarchical period and later, when domestic unites were more varied in their spatial aspects and economic functions). Combining family, with its kingship meanings, and household, a more flexible term including both coresident and economic functions, has descriptive merit. The family household thus included a set of related people as well as residential buildings, outbuildings, tools, equipment, fields, livestock, and orchards; it sometimes also included household members who were not kin, such as "sojourners", war captives and servants." - Families in Ancient Israel: The Family in Early Israel, Carol Meyers, pgs. 13-14


In describing early archaeological excavation of homes in Israel...


"These dwelling clusters constitute evidence for a family unit in early Israel larger than that of the nuclear family (or conjugal couple with unmarried offspring). Each pillared house in a cluster may represent the living space of a nuclear family or parts thereof, but the shared courtyard space and common house walls of the linked buildings indicate a larger family grouping. Early Israelite dwelling unites were thus complex arrangements of several buildings and housed what we might call extended families. Furthermore, thee compound dwelling unites were not isolated buildings within a settlement of single-family homes." - Ibid, pg. 16


"The family was never so 'nuclear' as it is in the modern West." - Families in Ancient Israel: Marriage, Divorce and Family in Second Temple Judaism, John J. Collins, pg. 106

---> Source

why do you see Mary deified? is that in scripture?

Non-sequitur. (I have never claimed Mary is deified.)

 

[loDebar]

do Catholics call Mary Queen of Heaven"?

 

[loDebar]

Exactly! For once again, in Jewish antiquity, "brother" had a much wider meaning than we moderns use. You are forcing a modern Westernized concept of a family unit (i.e. a nuclear family) onto an ancient Hebrew / Semitic (tribal) culture. The ancient Hebrews did not view family in this manner.

The Gospels themselves testify to this, as the Scriptures do say Jesus had brothers (and sisters). However, Scripture explicitly shows they were not uterine brothers. For the Gospels tell us that James, John, Joses and Jude were the sons of Mary of Cleophas. Thus, they cannot be uterine siblings of Jesus based on the fact that St. Matthew and St. John name a different Mary as their mother.

---> Matthew 27:56
---> John 19:25


Here again is proof from scholars / history / archaeology...

"The units comprising the village mispahah, or kinship group, were the families of early Israel. Because these families were agriculturists, their identity and survival were integrally connected with their material world - more specifically, with their arable land, their implements for working the land and processing its products, and their domiciles - as well as with the human and also animal components of the domestic group. In many ways, the term family household is more useful in dealing with early Israelite families (although that would not be the case for the monarchical period and later, when domestic unites were more varied in their spatial aspects and economic functions). Combining family, with its kingship meanings, and household, a more flexible term including both coresident and economic functions, has descriptive merit. The family household thus included a set of related people as well as residential buildings, outbuildings, tools, equipment, fields, livestock, and orchards; it sometimes also included household members who were not kin, such as "sojourners", war captives and servants." - Families in Ancient Israel: The Family in Early Israel, Carol Meyers, pgs. 13-14


In describing early archaeological excavation of homes in Israel...


"These dwelling clusters constitute evidence for a family unit in early Israel larger than that of the nuclear family (or conjugal couple with unmarried offspring). Each pillared house in a cluster may represent the living space of a nuclear family or parts thereof, but the shared courtyard space and common house walls of the linked buildings indicate a larger family grouping. Early Israelite dwelling unites were thus complex arrangements of several buildings and housed what we might call extended families. Furthermore, thee compound dwelling unites were not isolated buildings within a settlement of single-family homes." - Ibid, pg. 16


"The family was never so 'nuclear' as it is in the modern West." - Families in Ancient Israel: Marriage, Divorce and Family in Second Temple Judaism, John J. Collins, pg. 106

---> Source





Non-sequitur. (I have never claimed Mary is deified.)

please explain the position of Mary taught by Catholics