The New Interpreters’s Study Bible (no doubt by accident) makes a case for Preterism!

[Logos1]

Among the many verses of the bible that futurists can’t explain, twist, or torture away is Matthew 10:23…I assure you: You will not have covered the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

This verse is simple and straightforward. Either Christ returned before the Apostles finished going through the towns of Israel or they are still alive going through the towns of Israel or the bible doesn’t tell the truth—one of these three things has to be true.

This verse is as immutable and inerrant as the rest of the inspired scriptures and it makes Full Preterism as immutable and inerrant as the inspired scriptures.

Another day that futurism has been counted as a failure and another day that Preterism has prevailed again.

Enlighten all us poor Biblical illiterates…Oldregular

Don’t be so hard on your self Oldregular we all have to start somewhere

 

[OldRegular]

Logos1: You answer nothing! You really have nothing to say except juvenile remarks.

When you can show where someone, anyone, recorded a visible sighting of the return of Jesus Christ in 70 AD then perhaps you will have something to say. The Apostle John said every eye shall see him, yet you cannot produce a single witness account for the simple reason that your doctrine is heretical nonsense.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Among the many verses of the bible that futurists can’t explain, twist, or torture away is Matthew 10:23…I assure you: You will not have covered the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

This verse is simple and straightforward. Either Christ returned before the Apostles finished going through the towns of Israel or they are still alive going through the towns of Israel or the bible doesn’t tell the truth—one of these three things has to be true.

This verse is as immutable and inerrant as the rest of the inspired scriptures and it makes Full Preterism as immutable and inerrant as the inspired scriptures.

Another day that futurism has been counted as a failure and another day that Preterism has prevailed again.

The verse is of couse, another deathblow for Hyper-preterism. If the verse is to be taken in a crudely literal fashion, then Christ must have returned around AD 45 or 50. It certainly wouldn't have taken twelve apostles anything like 40 years to get around the towns of 1st Century Israel.

But of course, the text has to be read with what A.W. Pink called 'anointed eyes.' Scripture must interpret Scripture. The Israel that our Lord was thinking of is spiritual Israel, 'The Israel of God,' and there are still thousands of towns where God surely has His elect, that haven't yet heard the Gospel. The verse should be read in conjunction with Matt 24:14.

Steve

 

[Logos1]

LOL, Oldregular whines about not having an answer then whines more about getting one

Logos1: You answer nothing! You really have nothing to say except juvenile remarks.

When you can show where someone, anyone, recorded a visible sighting of the return of Jesus Christ in 70 AD then perhaps you will have something to say. The Apostle John said every eye shall see him, yet you cannot produce a single witness account for the simple reason that your doctrine is heretical nonsense.

Aw, did your fragile feelings get a boo boo. I have a shoulder you can cry on. Afterwards we’ll make some warm cocoa and you’ll feel all better.

If the forums upset you Oldregular maybe they aren’t for you. You need to put on your big boy pants in here and not expect people to coddle your view point or coddle silly whining about not getting an answer when it is right next to your question.

You have a solid, bible based, factual answer as recorded by history and you just don’t want to acknowledge it because it shreds your preconceived notions. You want to take horao and turn it into eyeball instead of discernment, you want to take the words soon and make them say far away, you want to take this generation and make it say a long in the future generation.

I can shred preconceived notions with scripture all day and all you can do is deny and pretend the scripture means something it was never intended to mean.

I haven’t seen you dispute Matthew 24 with bible verses that the apostles asked three things 1. when would the temple be destroyed? 2. what would be the sign of his coming? 3. when would be the end of the age? Then Jesus answered all three questions with one event. He answered more than once and never deviated from that answer. Here is a lesson in how to understand the following parable of the 10 virgins Jesus gave as a simple illustration at the start of ch. 25.

Jesus is the groom in the parable just like he is the groom in Revelation 21 the 10 virgins are the Holy City or the bride (v 1) they represent the New Covenant or New Age or Kingdom of God. The one shouting in verse 6 “Here’s the groom” is the herald or John the Baptist saying the Kingdom of God is at hand.

Notice the timing here—the groom is delayed and they don’t know the exact minute he is coming, but there is a general knowledge of his arrival they know he is close and he came in their life time not after they died not generations into the future, but soon just like Christ says behold he comes quickly. He didn’t leave them hanging and trick them by coming after they had all died off and come thousands of years later he came as expected to them.

Notice also the groom didn’t come down from heaven and rapture them away or come several times he came only once and stayed here on earth living with the bride not coming and taking her away, but staying with her.

It helps if you realize that the Jewish term heaven and earth refers to the Temple and 2 Peter 3:7 Tells us the Temple (heaven and earth) are held in store for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. He goes on in verse 10 to say the heavens will pass away (temple) the elements (gold instruments of worship used in the temple) will melt with heat (v 12) and a new heavens and earth (v 13) will dwell—the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit—our new relationship with the Triune God in the New Covenant.
In 70 AD Millions saw and testified to the burning of Jerusalem and the Temple. It was physical and literal and the gold elements of worship in the temple melted from the intense heat of the fire and ran down into the crevices of the stone temple and the Roman soldiers dismantled the temple stone by stone not leaving one stone upon another just as Jesus predicted in Matthew 24:2.

Only the Preterist view let’s you tie all scripture together in a coherent, meaningful, inclusive manner that doesn’t contradict itself.

I’m sure your fatalistic and delusional, preconceived notions will force you to call it blather and probably give us another outburst of vitriol, but any person with an open heart and spirit who seeks truth will eventually come to embrace Preterism as the best way to understand the bible and upon which to build their relationship with God.

And the power and the glory forever Amen.

Logos1

 

[Logos1]

Now who is spirtualizing scripture

The verse is of couse, another deathblow for Hyper-preterism. If the verse is to be taken in a crudely literal fashion, then Christ must have returned around AD 45 or 50. It certainly wouldn't have taken twelve apostles anything like 40 years to get around the towns of 1st Century Israel.

But of course, the text has to be read with what A.W. Pink called 'anointed eyes.' Scripture must interpret Scripture. The Israel that our Lord was thinking of is spiritual Israel, 'The Israel of God,' and there are still thousands of towns where God surely has His elect, that haven't yet heard the Gospel. The verse should be read in conjunction with Matt 24:14.

Steve

LOL, and futurists accuse preterists of spiritualizing literal events away.

To literally go through every town is different than to cover a region in a general way passing through just the big cities.

Whether it is Arthur Pink or Billy Graham or Bozo the Clown “anointed eyes” is simply a “cheat step” a way to force meaning on something that otherwise doesn’t work. Since futurists can’t square this with reason they resort to laughable slight of hand to twist the scripture. No where in the bible does Jesus or the Apostles embrace the notion of “anointed eyes” to slight of hand your way around scripture you don’t like.

As usually happens when futurists try these slight of hand tricks if you examine the bible verses in question they contradict themselves. Let’s just look at Matt 24:14.

You say they haven’t gone through the entire World yet, but Matt 24:14 doesn’t reference the entire World as in the entire globe as we use the term today—it references the area around the Mediterranean sea as they used the term World in the bible.

How do we know this-because the bible tells us they have gone through the entire world. Col 1:23 NLT “the good news has been preached all over the World.” Obviously Paul didn’t mean the entire globe, but the Mediterranean world.

You have demonstrated the abject failure of futurism once again Steve. Thank you for helping to demonstrate the truth of Preterism in the proper understanding of the Holy Scriptures.

And as another day ends and another begins we see once again the never ending demonstration of futurism failing again and again now two thousand years of continuous, never ending failure. No wonder Preterism is growing by leaps and bounds these days.

Enlighten all us poor Biblical illiterates…Oldregular

Glad to lend a hand my friend

 

[Martin Marprelate]

LOL, and futurists accuse preterists of spiritualizing literal events away.

To literally go through every town is different than to cover a region in a general way passing through just the big cities.

Exactly so. So tell us, O great and wise one, just when in AD 35 or so did our Lord return? I think I exagerrated when I suggested AD 45-50. It wouldn't take one person 40 years to go hrough every town in 1st Century Israel, let alone twelve. Or are you trying to 'spiritualize' the text by supposing it refers to villages as well?

Whether it is Arthur Pink or Billy Graham or Bozo the Clown “anointed eyes” is simply a “cheat step” a way to force meaning on something that otherwise doesn’t work. Since futurists can’t square this with reason they resort to laughable slight of hand to twist the scripture. No where in the bible does Jesus or the Apostles embrace the notion of “anointed eyes” to slight [sic] of hand your way around scripture you don’t like.

O boy! You are a prize case of idiocy! So you're a Roman Catholic, are you? 'Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life' (John 6:54). Do you 'spiritualize' that or do you go to Mass every Lord's day? Sheesh!

You say they haven’t gone through the entire World yet, but Matt 24:14 doesn’t reference the entire World as in the entire globe as we use the term today—it references the area around the Mediterranean sea as they used the term World in the bible.

How do we know this-because the bible tells us they have gone through the entire world. Col 1:23 NLT “the good news has been preached all over the World.” Obviously Paul didn’t mean the entire globe, but the Mediterranean world.

Wonderful! You have fallen into an elephant trap all of your own making. How come the Gospel has been preached 'To every creature' over the entire Roman world by around AD 60 or so, but it hasn't manged to get around the towns of Israel by AD 70? I notice you used the NLT translation so that you could 'spiritualize' the text a little. :smilewinkgrin:

And as another day ends and another begins we see once again the never ending demonstration of futurism failing again and again now two thousand years of continuous, never ending failure.

On the contrary, the truth of the Bible and proper eschatology is being proved every day by the longsuffering of God (2 Peter 3:8-11). You are also proving it by your continuing intransigence and false teaching (Prov 15:12).

No wonder Preterism [sic] is growing by leaps and bounds these days.

Of course your version of Preterism is a perversion of a doctrine that I regard as honourable, even though I don't agree with it. I am delighted to tell you that I have never met a Hyper-preterist in Britain and to the best of my knowledge they don't exist :godisgood:

Enlighten all us poor Biblical illiterates…

We keep trying to, but you won't listen. Perhaps you should follow the advice of Proverbs 17:28.

Steve

 

[OldRegular]

Aw, did your fragile feelings get a boo boo. I have a shoulder you can cry on. Afterwards we’ll make some warm cocoa and you’ll feel all better.

The above childish nonsense is basically the extent of your responses since the initial OP, not just to me but to anyone who questions your heretical beliefs. I have no where indicated just what my views on eschatology are other than to point out that full preterism is heretical yet you continue to make childish, snotty remarks. Perhaps I have wounded your tender feelings but if you have heretical beliefs then you should be able to defend them. My initial and only approach to your OP was to ask the following:

When you can show where someone, anyone, recorded a visible sighting of the return of Jesus Christ in 70 AD then perhaps you will have something to say. The Apostle John said every eye shall see him, yet you cannot produce a single witness account for the simple reason that your doctrine is heretical nonsense.

You can defend your beliefs by responding to the above request. Instead you have repeated the same nonsense over and over. That is why I write that you obviously have absolutely nothing to say!

Only the Preterist view let’s you tie all scripture together in a coherent, meaningful, inclusive manner that doesn’t contradict itself.
Logos1

The so-called doctrine of full preterism splinters the Scripture as bad, if not worse, than hyper dispensationalism and that is a very sad fact!

 

[OldRegular]

It helps if you realize that the Jewish term heaven and earth refers to the Temple and 2 Peter 3:7 Tells us the Temple (heaven and earth) are held in store for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. He goes on in verse 10 to say the heavens will pass away (temple) the elements (gold instruments of worship used in the temple) will melt with heat (v 12) and a new heavens and earth (v 13) will dwell—the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit—our new relationship with the Triune God in the New Covenant.

So the Jewish term "heaven and earth" refers to the temple. What did Peter mean when he wrote:

2 Peter 3:3-7, KJV
3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Did the Apostle Peter pull a fast one here? He tells us the heavens were of old and the earth standing out of the water and in the water. Not so fast there Saint Peter, Logos1 would have us believe that you were talking about the temple!!!!!!!

In 70 AD Millions saw and testified to the burning of Jerusalem and the Temple. It was physical and literal and the gold elements of worship in the temple melted from the intense heat of the fire and ran down into the crevices of the stone temple and the Roman soldiers dismantled the temple stone by stone not leaving one stone upon another just as Jesus predicted in Matthew 24:2.

In 70 AD MILLIONS, MILLIONS you say, "MILLIONS saw and testified to the burning of Jerusalem and the Temple. "It was physical and literal" you say.

Now just where did those MILLIONS of people come from? Were all the resurrected people standing around watching Jerusalem burn? Where is their testimony recorded? Why is it that not one of those millions saw and told of the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in Power and Great Glory? And then He went away again?

The above two paragraphs by Logos are without doubt the product of a vivid imagination! Talk about spiritualizing Scripture; but it shows the length that some will go to justify their error.

They would be comical if they were not so tragic. I am going to remove my smilies!

 

[Logos1]

So Steve you don't like Catholics?

Exactly so. So tell us, O great and wise one, just when in AD 35 or so did our Lord return? I think I exagerrated when I suggested AD 45-50. It wouldn't take one person 40 years to go hrough every town in 1st Century Israel, let alone twelve. Or are you trying to 'spiritualize' the text by supposing it refers to villages as well?


O boy! You are a prize case of idiocy! So you're a Roman Catholic, are you? 'Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life' (John 6:54). Do you 'spiritualize' that or do you go to Mass every Lord's day? Sheesh!


Wonderful! You have fallen into an elephant trap all of your own making. How come the Gospel has been preached 'To every creature' over the entire Roman world by around AD 60 or so, but it hasn't manged to get around the towns of Israel by AD 70? I notice you used the NLT translation so that you could 'spiritualize' the text a little. :smilewinkgrin:


On the contrary, the truth of the Bible and proper eschatology is being proved every day by the longsuffering of God (2 Peter 3:8-11). You are also proving it by your continuing intransigence and false teaching (Prov 15:12).

Of course your version of Preterism is a perversion of a doctrine that I regard as honourable, even though I don't agree with it. I am delighted to tell you that I have never met a Hyper-preterist in Britain and to the best of my knowledge they don't exist :godisgood:


We keep trying to, but you won't listen. Perhaps you should follow the advice of Proverbs 17:28.

Steve

I never suggested he came in 35 AD. That was your mistake not mine. 70 AD is the agreed upon date for his second coming if you want to use that term. It is the date the Jewish temple was destroyed so that settle the date of the end of the age and his coming.

LOL, you think calling me a Catholic is going to get under my skin. LOL, I been called worse—use your imagination and come up with something more entertaining than that.

NLT used the term World, but substitute your own translation and the point is the same—Paul says it was taken to the whole Roman world (Mediterranean world) so if you want to argue with that point you are stuck arguing with the apostle not me. (of course any real person would see the use of hyperbole in every creature—but you bit on it—I couldn’t help but laugh, but have to wonder did you really get suckered in on that or did you think you could pull a fast one trying to one up me) Same thing with Jesus telling the disciples they won’t get through the towns of Israel before he returns. You are arguing with Jesus not me. Or maybe you think you are more inspired than Jesus and the Apostles and you can put words in their mouth and restate their words in the Gospel according to Steve. Entertaining stuff, but not quite passing the inspired test.

You to will one day be a Preterist Steve. When we die and get to heaven and know more there than we do now we will all be Preterists in heaven. But not to worry when we meet I won’t rub it in.

Of course futurism added another day to its 2,000 year old list of never ending failures today. Preterism looks better and futurism worse every day regardless of whom denies or accepts it.

Enlighten all us poor Biblical illiterates…Oldregular

It’s a process, you don’t get there over night.

 

[Logos1]

The passion of OR

So the Jewish term "heaven and earth" refers to the temple. What did Peter mean when he wrote:

2 Peter 3:3-7, KJV
3. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4. And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7. But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Did the Apostle Peter pull a fast one here? He tells us the heavens were of old and the earth standing out of the water and in the water. Not so fast there Saint Peter, Logos1 would have us believe that you were talking about the temple!!!!!!!



In 70 AD MILLIONS, MILLIONS you say, "MILLIONS saw and testified to the burning of Jerusalem and the Temple. "It was physical and literal" you say.

Now just where did those MILLIONS of people come from? Were all the resurrected people standing around watching Jerusalem burn? Where is their testimony recorded? Why is it that not one of those millions saw and told of the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in Power and Great Glory? And then He went away again?

The above two paragraphs by Logos are without doubt the product of a vivid imagination! Talk about spiritualizing Scripture; but it shows the length that some will go to justify their error.

They would be comical if they were not so tragic. I am going to remove my smilies!

This is truly child’s play OR. Look it up in history Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70 AD by fire just as this and many other scripture verses said they would be. You can deny it but it is historical fact. Whenever you see the term heaven and earth being destroyed by fire read it in the context of the destruction of the temple and it will always make sense. I bet even you could do it with a little practice.

Here is a clue for you—when you see the term heaven and earth look at the verses around it for context. Are they talking about the cosmos or the Old or New Covenant. If you see the discussion focused on covenants then you know that it is the Jewish temple, the way Jewish life is structured around the Temple system. Even someone not familiar with it could soon get very good at recognizing it is not the Cosmos being talked about.

Yes indeed—millions is the number you are looking for here. Some scholars say as many as two or three million people gathered at Jerusalem and were trapped there when Rome moved against the city. Many put it at less, but either way there would have been several million through the Mediterranean region if not Judea itself who were aware of the Temple being destroyed and they were witness to the great and terrible day of the Lord. It makes hallow your claim that no one saw Christ return in judgment in 70 AD it just shows you don’t know how to interpret Christ saying he would return. Keep trying you will get there OR. It’s a process. I think we are making progress here.

We Preterists don’t spiritualize away scripture like futurists like to claim we do—we just like to get it right. Futurists can’t match scripture with us so they like to undercut the source.

By the way OR I love it when you write with passion—give us some more.

Enlighten all us poor Biblical illiterates…Oldregular

The above childish nonsense is basically the extent of your responses since the initial OP, not just to me but to anyone who questions your heretical beliefs. …Oldregular

Is it biblical enlightment or nonsense OR—are you confused about where you are posting or just confused about what you think?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I never suggested he came in 35 AD. That was your mistake not mine. 70 AD is the agreed upon date for his second coming if you want to use that term. It is the date the Jewish temple was destroyed so that settle the date of the end of the age and his coming.

Are you really that dense or are you just pretending to be? Let me spell it out for you once again. It is not possible to take Matt 10:23 literally and come to a date of AD 70. It could not possibly take the Apostles 40 years to get around Israel. Therefore, either the Lord Jesus really returned in about AD 35, maybe earlier, or you're reading Matt 10: 23 wrong. Which is it?

LOL, you think calling me a Catholic is going to get under my skin. LOL, I been called worse—use your imagination and come up with something more entertaining than that.

I can certainly believe that you've been called any number of worse things. Perhaps that should be telling you something.

NLT used the term World, but substitute your own translation and the point is the same—Paul says it was taken to the whole Roman world (Mediterranean world) so if you want to argue with that point you are stuck arguing with the apostle not me. (of course any real person would see the use of hyperbole in every creature

Now why do you think there is hyperbole in 'every creature under heaven,' which is what Paul actually wrote, but not in 'the whole {Roman} world'- which of course the Apostle didn't write? You chose your hyperbole to suit your own pathetic argument. Actually, if you want me to explain Col 1:23 to you. I'll be happy to do so. But you didn't answer my question. Forgive me if I put it in bold, but I wouldn't want you to miss it again. How come that (according to you) the Gospel had got to the entire Roman world by around AD 60, but it hadn't got around the towns of Israel (which was part of the Roman world) by AD 70? It would be nice to get an answer on that, please

You are arguing with Jesus not me.

No. I know what the Lord Jesus meant by Matt 10:23 and 24:14, and what the Apostle meant in Col 1:23. I can reconcile them perfectly well, which is more than you can.

You too will one day be a Preterist Steve.

Is it part of the Hyper-preterism myth that hell freezes over?
Never mind. It's another day of God's longsuffering before the Return of Christ :thumbs:, so there's still time for you to repent of your stupidity. For now.

Steve

 

[Logos1]

I think Steve has embraced the Catholics again. I know they are glad.

Are you really that dense or are you just pretending to be? Let me spell it out for you once again. It is not possible to take Matt 10:23 literally and come to a date of AD 70. It could not possibly take the Apostles 40 years to get around Israel. Therefore, either the Lord Jesus really returned in about AD 35, maybe earlier, or you're reading Matt 10: 23 wrong. Which is it?


I can certainly believe that you've been called any number of worse things. Perhaps that should be telling you something.

Now why do you think there is hyperbole in 'every creature under heaven,' which is what Paul actually wrote, but not in 'the whole {Roman} world'- which of course the Apostle didn't write? You chose your hyperbole to suit your own pathetic argument. Actually, if you want me to explain Col 1:23 to you. I'll be happy to do so. But you didn't answer my question. Forgive me if I put it in bold, but I wouldn't want you to miss it again. How come that (according to you) the Gospel had got to the entire Roman world by around AD 60, but it hadn't got around the towns of Israel (which was part of the Roman world) by AD 70? It would be nice to get an answer on that, please

No. I know what the Lord Jesus meant by Matt 10:23 and 24:14, and what the Apostle meant in Col 1:23. I can reconcile them perfectly well, which is more than you can.

Is it part of the Hyper-preterism myth that hell freezes over?
Never mind. It's another day of God's longsuffering before the Return of Christ :thumbs:, so there's still time for you to repent of your stupidity. For now.

Steve

Well I know the Catholics will be glad to know you have made up with them and aren’t taking their name in vain in this post.

Reconciling is easy Steve you just like to make scripture rigid when it suits your purposes and over look part of altogether at other times when that suits your purposes. Going through every little town and back water is different than going to all the major cities. So who do we believe Steve and his inspired word or Jesus and his inspired word? You can of course promote yourself over the words of Christ in your own mind, but let me think on it for a second. Hmmm, that is about long enough I’ll go with Christ and what he said. Tough decision that was—not.

Gee, Steve I can just feel the love from you. Would you like to whisper a sweet nothing in my ear?

Well in point of fact it has been answered several times in this very thread, but you of course would rather twist and shout that you haven’t gotten an answer than acknowledge that you have one you don’t like that puts you at odds with scripture. Instead of repeating it again let me refer you to the first paragraph of this post. (Hint, Hint it is the part where there is a difference between towns and major cities.)

Oh you can reconcile it—uh Steve why didn’t you just do it and instead of claim you can and walk away--LOL. You know what they say--talk is cheap—reconciling takes scriptural knowledge and understanding. 0-2 count, I’m waiting.

Steve you better watch out making slightful comments about hell like that—Old Regular haunts this post on occasion and he will say you are spewing blather and don’t know what you are talking about. (Just between you and me—his bark is worse than his bite—when he lashes out at you it’s sort of like a little boy pulling a little girl’s pigtail for attention.) I think he is cute when he is mad. I enjoy his attention.

Double LOL—define stupidity for me. I’d love to know your definition as it’s used in this context. Don’t hold back now—I want your honest feelings on the matter.

Another day of futurism’s failure. Don’t worry Steve you will have the rest of your life even if you live till the sun burns out billions of years in the future to embrace Preterism because Christ already returned and you just haven’t recognized it—yet!

Enlighten all us poor Biblical illiterates…Oldregular

A lesser man might get discouraged in this task, but I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

 

[OldRegular]

Here is a clue for you—when you see the term heaven and earth look at the verses around it for context.

I looked at and posted the verses around it. You did not

Many put it at less, but either way there would have been several million through the Mediterranean region if not Judea itself who were aware of the Temple being destroyed and they were witness to the great and terrible day of the Lord.

No doubt the people in Rome saw the flames shooting up and the molten gold running into the sewers. It is quite possible that the people in far off Spain or Britain, even India saw the smoke and mourned. Given the speed with which information traveled in those days it is perfectly normal that the entire world saw the smoke and knew that it signified the Return of the Lord Jesus Christ in Power and Great Glory. I repent in sack cloth and ashes Logos. You are obviously of superior intellect, why I guess relative to anyone on this Forum, even the extreme hyper dispensationalists.

It makes hallow your claim that no one saw Christ return in judgment in 70 AD it just shows you don’t know how to interpret Christ saying he would return. Keep trying you will get there OR. It’s a process. I think we are making progress here.

Doubtless someone has a video of His return. They are simply keeping it until the price goes up. Just think, people get excited about reality TV. What a sight.

We Preterists don’t spiritualize away scripture like futurists like to claim we do—we just like to get it right. Futurists can’t match scripture with us so they like to undercut the source.

I can't speak fot the futurists Logos. You might contact bemeup ot Ituttut!

Enlighten all us poor Biblical illiterates…Oldregular

You might reflect on the following:

Hosea 4:17, KJV Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.

The above childish nonsense is basically the extent of your responses since the initial OP, not just to me but to anyone who questions your heretical beliefs. …Oldregular

Is it biblical enlightment or nonsense OR—are you confused about where you are posting or just confused about what you think?

Just respond to the following post and you can bring an end all the this childish blather

Logos1: You answer nothing! You really have nothing to say except juvenile remarks.

When you can show where someone, anyone, recorded a visible sighting of the return of Jesus Christ in 70 AD then perhaps you will have something to say. The Apostle John said every eye shall see him, yet you cannot produce a single witness account for the simple reason that your doctrine is heretical nonsense.

 

[Logos1]

Logos to the rescue and make straight the way of understanding for OR

I looked at and posted the verses around it. You did not

No doubt the people in Rome saw the flames shooting up and the molten gold running into the sewers. It is quite possible that the people in far off Spain or Britain, even India saw the smoke and mourned. Given the speed with which information traveled in those days it is perfectly normal that the entire world saw the smoke and knew that it signified the Return of the Lord Jesus Christ in Power and Great Glory. I repent in sack cloth and ashes Logos. You are obviously of superior intellect, why I guess relative to anyone on this Forum, even the extreme hyper dispensationalists.


Doubtless someone has a video of His return. They are simply keeping it until the price goes up. Just think, people get excited about reality TV. What a sight.

I can't speak fot the futurists Logos. You might contact bemeup ot Ituttut!





You might reflect on the following:

Hosea 4:17, KJV Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.



Just respond to the following post and you can bring an end all the this childish blather

Hmmm, you know it is equally justifiable to ask if you can prove Jesus didn’t come back in 70 AD.

You have been given a biblical answer, a historical answer, and given it several times you just like to ignore answers when it suits your purposes.

Take Isaiah 19:1 when it says God rode a swift against Egypt do you think anyone actually saw God riding on a cloud? Yes this is a real question—answer please.

Remember John 5:19 Whatever the father does the son does

Remember Mark 13:26 And they shall see the Son of Man coming with Power and great glory.

Remember the word glory in the bible means presence of God it doesn’t mean you see a literal, physical in the flesh and bone person standing there.

Rev 1:7 every eye shall see him Horao means discernment of the mind not eyeball.

Just as the OT used the cloud comings as the presence of God so did Jesus speak in those terms which is what His first century audience understood.

Isaiah understood the Assyrian army in 19:1 was God’s will working itself out on earth and His presence was in it. Same with Christ coming in 70 AD.

The bible talks about the heavens and earth being destroyed by fire and other references to destruction by fire and that is what happened to Jerusalem. Lot’s of people saw it and knew of it—regardless of your refusal to own up to it.

So you see it is really pretty simple to follow the logic used in the bible—the Roman armies represent the presence of God. The Roman armies were used as his instrument in the judgment of the Jews. His presence was in the events unfolding on earth.

Now you have been taught to think differently in terms of Christ’s return and can’t wrap your mind around anything else, but that is your problem not a problem with how Jesus explained his return in 70 AD.


You are obviously of superior intellect, why I guess relative to anyone on this Forum…..Oldregular

Enlighten all us poor Biblical illiterates…Oldregular

Thanks Oldregular that is very kind of you.

This is getting to be like a favorite quotes section by Oldregular

 

[OldRegular]

You have been given a biblical answer, a historical answer, and given it several times you just like to ignore answers when it suits your purposes.

I have been given nothing Logos because you have nothing to give other than the fantasy of extreme hyper preterism. You claim Jesus Christ returned in 70 AD. Just show one historical reference that this return of the Lord Jesus Christ was visible as promised by Scripture! You can't, it did not happen. You know it and all who believe the Bible know it!

Hosea 4:17, KJV Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.

 

[Logos1]

I think we have tacit concession by Oldregular

I have been given nothing Logos because you have nothing to give other than the fantasy of extreme hyper preterism. You claim Jesus Christ returned in 70 AD. Just show one historical reference that this return of the Lord Jesus Christ was visible as promised by Scripture! You can't, it did not happen. You know it and all who believe the Bible know it!

Hosea 4:17, KJV Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.

Hmmm, looks like Oldregular is only talented at asking questions, but can’t answer them.

I’ll ask again in case he managed to miss the questions and number them for your benefit this time. I’m having so much fun here. I can only hope you enjoy it half as much as I do my futurist friend (I’m serious—that is not blather).

1. Hmmm, you know it is equally justifiable to ask if you can prove Jesus didn’t come back in 70 AD. Do you have any proof he didn’t?


2. Take Isaiah 19:1 when it says God rode a swift against Egypt do you think anyone actually saw God riding on a cloud? Yes this is a real question—answer please.

And in the bonus round for an extra 10 points

3. Are you bolding and enlarging the print on your answers to infer screaming?



OR normally when one person answers the question of another they try to respond to the point made not ignore it unless they are looking for a round about way to concede the point. Should I infer concession on your part?


You are obviously of superior intellect, why I guess relative to anyone on this Forum…..Oldregular

Enlighten all us poor Biblical illiterates…Oldregular

Thanks Oldregular that is very kind of you.

This is getting to be like a favorite quotes section by Oldregular

 

[OldRegular]

Logo

It is very simple to prove that The Lord Jesus Christ did not return in 70 AD, that is if you believe the Bible. In fact I proved this in my second response to your OP [Post #6]. However, if you don't believe the Bible then there is no hope!

Scripture, that is the inerrant Word of God, tells us about the ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ. Scripture also tells us about the return.

Acts 1:9-11, KJV

9. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11. Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Now the Biblical record is that the disciples saw the Lord Jesus Christ taken up and a cloud received him out of their sight. They were told that when He returned He would come in like manner. That means someone would SEE with their eyes the Lord Jesus Christ coming in Power and Great Glory. I believe the Bible and would encourage you to also believe. Again if you chose not to believe there is no hope!

That blessed old Apostle John confirms what the two men ,, in white apparel told the disciples. In fact he provides some additional information and insight into this glorious event.

The Apostle writes in Revelation 1:7 [KJV]

7. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

So you see Logo the return of the Lord Jesus Christ in 70 AD in Power and Great Glory did not happen. None of the millions of people whom you claim saw the burning of the temple reported any sighting of that Glorious Return, not a single itsy bitsy record!

 

[Logos1]

Logo

It is very simple to prove that The Lord Jesus Christ did not return in 70 AD, that is if you believe the Bible. In fact I proved this in my second response to your OP [Post #6]. However, if you don't believe the Bible then there is no hope!

Scripture, that is the inerrant Word of God, tells us about the ascension of the Lord Jesus Christ. Scripture also tells us about the return.

Acts 1:9-11, KJV

9. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11. Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Now the Biblical record is that the disciples saw the Lord Jesus Christ taken up and a cloud received him out of their sight. They were told that when He returned He would come in like manner. That means someone would SEE with their eyes the Lord Jesus Christ coming in Power and Great Glory. I believe the Bible and would encourage you to also believe. Again if you chose not to believe there is no hope!

That blessed old Apostle John confirms what the two men ,, in white apparel told the disciples. In fact he provides some additional information and insight into this glorious event.

The Apostle writes in Revelation 1:7 [KJV]

7. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

So you see Logo the return of the Lord Jesus Christ in 70 AD in Power and Great Glory did not happen. None of the millions of people whom you claim saw the burning of the temple reported any sighting of that Glorious Return, not a single itsy bitsy record!

Your chosen way to read the passage is to cut out verse 9 and ignore the fact the apostles said that Christ disappeared from their sight—they admit they don’t see him so obviously they don’t know where he went that is why it was necessary for the angels to tell them that he went into heaven. I think you realize you are hoisted on your own petard to admit they didn’t see where he went then try to say he will return from heaven. Truthfully this verse has nothing to do with his return that is dealt with later. This simply verifies that he went into heaven. The coming in in verse 11 is coming into heaven not coming back to earth.

You of course don’t want to read it straight up, but need to cling to your preconceived notions as to how to understand it. Futurism is built on such convenient notions—not actual scripture.

As a further example of your convenient reading you ignore the question about Isaiah and God’s riding on a cloud—do you want to try and literalize that and say people saw God actually standing on a cloud? Hoisted on that petard again!

So when scripture interprets scripture you have a clear definitive example that the presence of the Lord on a cloud doesn’t mean a human like figure appearing in the sky. It was a Jewish style of writing. You want to make it into an English style of writing removed from its intention by its author.

I also didn’t see you offer any proof that Christ didn’t return at the end of the age when he said he would.

You are obviously of superior intellect, why I guess relative to anyone on this Forum…..Oldregular

Enlighten all us poor Biblical illiterates…Oldregular

Thanks Oldregular that is very kind of you.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Oh dear! Logos seems to have forgotten to answer my question again.
Let me ask it one more time. How come that (according to you) the Gospel had got to the entire Roman world by around AD 60, but it hadn't got around the towns of Israel (which was part of the Roman world) by AD 70? It would be nice to get an answer on that, please. I can say 'pretty please' if you like, but I do expect you to answer. When you do, I will explain to you what Col 1:23 means, and reconcile it with the Matthew passages, though if you really want to know you can look it up in most decent Reformed commentaries.

Steve

 

[convicted1]

The hyper-preterists are sad, don't you know? They believe that Jesus has already come, and that 1 Thess. 4:12-16 has already been fulfilled, and that I guess when we are buried, our bodies won't be resurrected, since Christ already came in AD 70. The Saducees did not believe in a resurrection, and neither do the hyper-preterists, which makes them "sad" "you" "see"!!