The New Testament...Is it inspired Scripture ?

[TexasSky]

You made the following statements:

I still do not see Peter saying that Paul's writings were itself inspired Scripture.

The gospels pointing out that Christ quoted the Old Testament does not prove that the New Testament is equally God-breathed as the Old Testament, merely that Christ was drawing His teachings from the Old Testament.

The only book in the New Testament that claims to have written what was dictated to him by God is the Book of Revelation, and the Book of Revelation does not make the whole New Testament.


I do not doubt that the Bible is God's Word, but, the word Bible means a library of books, and what I want to know, if you will enlighten me, is are all 66 books God-breathed, or is it just the 37 books of the Old Testament since Jesus Christ quoted from the Old Testament, Paul said that scriptures written aforetime and not during his time or after his time were written for our learning, the our including us in today's time, and Peter seems to say the same thing.

I have no problem at all with the New Testament, except the fact that we teach the Epistles of Paul, Peter, John, and Jude to be as equally God-breathed as the writings of the prophets of old.




Now - NO MORE WORD GAMES.
No more nonsense.

Do you believe the entire New Testament is the Inspired Word of God - or not?

 

[pinoybaptist]

Originally posted by TexasSky:
You made the following statements:

I still do not see Peter saying that Paul's writings were itself inspired Scripture.

The gospels pointing out that Christ quoted the Old Testament does not prove that the New Testament is equally God-breathed as the Old Testament, merely that Christ was drawing His teachings from the Old Testament.

The only book in the New Testament that claims to have written what was dictated to him by God is the Book of Revelation, and the Book of Revelation does not make the whole New Testament.


I do not doubt that the Bible is God's Word, but, the word Bible means a library of books, and what I want to know, if you will enlighten me, is are all 66 books God-breathed, or is it just the 37 books of the Old Testament since Jesus Christ quoted from the Old Testament, Paul said that scriptures written aforetime and not during his time or after his time were written for our learning, the our including us in today's time, and Peter seems to say the same thing.

I have no problem at all with the New Testament, except the fact that we teach the Epistles of Paul, Peter, John, and Jude to be as equally God-breathed as the writings of the prophets of old.




Now - NO MORE WORD GAMES.
No more nonsense.

Do you believe the entire New Testament is the Inspired Word of God - or not?

And what, pray tell, are you gonna do ? Shoot me ?

Don't just make me swallow food you slam down my throat, show me WHY it is good for me.

If that is the way you will ask, then my answer is NO NO NO...and what are you gonna do about it ?

 

[Bluefalcon]

Originally posted by pinoybaptist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by pinoybaptist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bluefalcon:
I agree with Helen for the simple word LOIPAS in 2 Pe. 3:16, which means "rest" or, in this case, other of the same class under consideration. If ETERAS were used, maybe pinoybaptist would have a point.

</font>[/QUOTE]sorry about that, BF. However, would you please clarify further ? do you mean 'wrest' ? or did you really mean 'rest' ?
thanks. </font>[/QUOTE]No, LOIPAS is the Greek adjective translated as "other" in some versions. The word's dominant domain lies in the meaning of the "rest" or the "other of the same class under consideration." So the heretics are doing to Paul's words what they do with the rest of Scripture.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

I have never read at the front ,middle or end of any book of the Bible that says,"this book is inspired by God".However I believe it is God's Holy Word from cover to cover.Jesus personnally attested to the scriptures in the O.T. so I guess that covers the O.T. pretty well.Peter,Paul,John,James and the rest of the apostles knew each other and would have come forth and objected to any false writings or inaccuracies in the N.T. books and letters.Some books were left out because they were questionable,time seems to have proven that a good idea.
I've read seveal books and articles about how our Bible came about and feel fairly safe that what we have is God's inspired Word.
That's my 2 cents worth.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Originally posted by Plain Old Bill:
I have never read at the front ,middle or end of any book of the Bible that says,"this book is inspired by God".However I believe it is God's Holy Word from cover to cover.Jesus personnally attested to the scriptures in the O.T. so I guess that covers the O.T. pretty well.Peter,Paul,John,James and the rest of the apostles knew each other and would have come forth and objected to any false writings or inaccuracies in the N.T. books and letters.Some books were left out because they were questionable,time seems to have proven that a good idea.
I've read seveal books and articles about how our Bible came about and feel fairly safe that what we have is God's inspired Word.
That's my 2 cents worth.

Thanks, Plain Old Bill.

 

[tinytim]

pinoy, if you are looking for a scripture stating the NT books are inspired, forget it.
If it was there, the early Christians would not have had so many disagreements on what was canon and what wasn't.

I realize that we are Baptists here, and supposedly everything we believe is supposed to be based on the Bible, but this is one thing that is based on early Church history.
In reality there are things we do as Baptists that are not commanded in scripture, ie Sunday School. But that doesn't mean we should abandon them.

I have some papers here somewhere that outlines how the NT books became canonized. I'll look for them over the next few days and send them to you via email. I haven't looked, but if your email is not posted, PM me the add.
If I remember right, the early church was disagreeing up into the 4th century on which books were inspired and which were not.

I understand what you are looking for. It is just not spelled out in scripture the way good old-fashioned Baptists want.
We must accept it by faith.

BTW, even if it there was some verse that stated the 27 were inspired, how would we know that verse was inspired?
Faith is the foundation.

 

[HankD]

The Apostolic Primitive Church before the Apostacy established the NT Books of the Bible defining them as Scripture:

1 Timothy 3
14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

I too believe by faith that the 66 Books of the Bible are the inspired Word of God, given to the Church the pillar and ground of truth of which the gates of hell will not prevail.

There is also the witness of the Spirit

John 7
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

Proverbs 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


HankD

 

[jarhed]

Originally posted by pinoybaptist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TexasSky:
Piony,

Wow. Why does suggesting you go to your knees and ask God to show you the truth of his scriptures translate to you as being concerned for your soul?

The bible says, "If you hunger or thirst after righteousness you will be filled." The words used are extreme. As in "starve" rather than "hunger" and "dieing of thirst" rather than "thirsty". The verse means if you TRULY crave to know the truth with all your heart God will teach you. You won't "seek in vain."

And forgive me, but if you seriously doubt that the bible is the inspired word of God, you are NOT alright with the Lord.

TS, the only truth I have to know is that God is a merciful God who loved me and sent His Son to die on the cross for me, and that the cross and salvation is all about God and Him alone, and not about me.

Now, I do not doubt that the Bible is God's Word, but, the word Bible means a library of books, and what I want to know, if you will enlighten me, is are all 66 books God-breathed, or is it just the 37 books of the Old Testament since Jesus Christ quoted from the Old Testament, Paul said that scriptures written aforetime and not during his time or after his time were written for our learning, the our including us in today's time, and Peter seems to say the same thing.
So, where is the Scripture, tell me since you seem so well-versed in Scripture, that says Paul's, Peter's, the 3 John's, and Jude's writings were God-breathed. </font>[/QUOTE]I think we are missing a key point here: Apostolic Authority to pen scripture is made VERY plain in John 14-17. It was the intent of Christ to let his deciples know that, as his 12 Apostles (one of whom was obviously chosen on the Damascus Road later), they would be instructed to write the necessary WORDS, and that these WORDS (see I Cor.2 and do a word study between there and John 14-17 on "things") would be imparted to them by the Comforter. See where Christ would take the "things" of the Father, and give them to the Holy Spirt of Truth, and He would DELIVER (teach) them to the deciples? There is your NT. As for Apocrophal writings...THEY DO NOT AGREE, nor can thier Apostolic Authorship be authenticated. Some examples of the eroneous doctrines in the Apocraphal books would be infant baptism, baptismal regeneration, the hyper-authority of the Nicolaitans (clergy), and pergatory. Obviously, Preservation is as much a devine act as inspiration.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Once again, jarhed, I thank you for your honest answer.
What I am really looking for is specific Scripture that says Paul, Peter, and other's writings were God-breathed. That is, God told them to 'write', or the author says, 'Thus, saith the Lord'.
I already exempted the Gospels, and the Book of Revelation, from my query. I am convinced that the Holy Spirit gave the four Gospel writers the words they are to write, and all four harmonize with each other, which none but God can do, seeing as the dates of their writing, and their authorship vary, just as those of the Old Testament do.
Mine is not an attempt to undermine anybody's faith, but, simply to establish what we all teach, that all 66 books are inspired.
As it is, I went to 2 Corinthians, and found no difference between Paul saying whatever he taught he taught in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, and a modern preacher being described as one who preaches in demonstration of the Spirit and power.
Do you see where I am going ?
Paul describing himself as a recipient of Holy Spirit revelation makes him no different than John Mc'Gee, or Pat Robertson, or others who claim revelation from the Holy Spirit, and who also base their claims on what they teach from the Holy Scriptures.
But, perhaps, a little more instruction from you may help my heart settle down.
I appreciate your kind posts.
PB

 

[pinoybaptist]

Originally posted by tinytim:
pinoy, if you are looking for a scripture stating the NT books are inspired, forget it.
If it was there, the early Christians would not have had so many disagreements on what was canon and what wasn't.

I realize that we are Baptists here, and supposedly everything we believe is supposed to be based on the Bible, but this is one thing that is based on early Church history.
In reality there are things we do as Baptists that are not commanded in scripture, ie Sunday School. But that doesn't mean we should abandon them.

I have some papers here somewhere that outlines how the NT books became canonized. I'll look for them over the next few days and send them to you via email. I haven't looked, but if your email is not posted, PM me the add.
If I remember right, the early church was disagreeing up into the 4th century on which books were inspired and which were not.

I understand what you are looking for. It is just not spelled out in scripture the way good old-fashioned Baptists want.
We must accept it by faith.

BTW, even if it there was some verse that stated the 27 were inspired, how would we know that verse was inspired?
Faith is the foundation.

There you go, tinytim. now we are getting closer to home. thank you for being honest.

 

[TexasSky]

Piony,

Address the scriptures I listed that state these men were appointed as teachers by God Himself.

 

[TexasSky]

I am curious.

What old testament verses do you feel declare Genesis and Ruth and Esther and Proverbs God-Breathed?

If I understand you correctly, out of the entire collection of bible books from Genesis to Revelation you are only questioning the writings of the new Testament, and you are questioning them based upon the fact that you cannot find a phrase or statement clearing stating, "God said write this down."

Many old testament books do not contain that either.

 

[HankD]

Many old testament books do not contain that either.

That is why I appealed to "tradition". There appears to be a valid "tradition" within the early Apostolic Primitive Church (the pillar and ground of the truth) until the establishment of the "Canon of Scripture".

Likewise the Jews.

KJV Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

The Jews in their history and tradition produced (through the Spirit of God) and preserved the "Scriptures" and their identity.

Ultimately it is an act of faith to accept the 66 books of the Bible produced by the authoritative congregation of Israel and the apostolic Church of Jesus Christ as the inspired Word of God through the witness of the Holy Spirit who indwells the children of God.

HankD

 

[JWI]

Has anyone shown this verse?

1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Here Paul is thanking the people for receiving his teachings as the very Word of God and not the teaching of man.

Very simple and clear.

 

[canadyjd]

pinoybaptist

I think I finally see what you are getting at. I think the problem (if I may be so bold) is your definition of "God-breathed" and/or "God-inspired". You are thinking much too narrowly.

To believe the New Testament is "God-breathed or inspired" does not require God dictating the material to the authors of these books with a voice from heaven (or an angel, etc..).

To be "God-breathed" only requires that God the Holy Spirit dwelt within them (as He does all believers), and so directed their thinking (without "possessing" them) that they wrote exactly what God wanted them to write. Their personalities, emotions, writing styles, purposes, etc., remained intact. God "brought to mind" the things that pertained to their readers situations, and so they wrote what He wanted them to write and wanted us to have.

peace to you

 

[MikeinGhana]

There is not one verse that proves the existence of God, is there? We believe there is a God by faith.

There is not one verse that all agree proves the pre-trib rapture of the body of Christ is there? We (most ofg us) believe it by faith.

If the NT is not inspired then it is a man made work, and potentially untrustworthy. Is that possible? If it is we are of all men most miserable.