The NKJV and it's pagan symbol

[Spirit and Truth]

walls stated:

Hey Artic, that symbol is on a Led Zepplin album I used to listen to when I was a teenager, before salvation of course. It is also displayed on some United Methodist churches. The popular show Charmed has it in the beginning. My brother who named his dog Wicca, certainly can tell you what it means. Funny how a lost person can identify things of the devil.

S&T:

I must admit that I find it humorous as well. It is just another part of a druidic / celtic design. It is rooted in mysticism which is forbidden in Deuteronomy and other books of Moses. The devil has always worked at slowly adding the unclean with the clean to adulterate what God has. It has no place on the cover of a bible, just as occultic expressions have no business being in some of the latest bible "translations". We are told to be separate, and to not do as the heathens do. We are also told to have NO appearence of evil. What were the publishers thinking?Are they that un- knowledgable about the occult and it's symbols? It is as insane as "Christian" tattoos.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Are you guys so enamored with pictures that you don't read the words?? God gave his "word" to us, not pictures. If you are offended by this, then take a marker and mark it out. You are chasing something that makes no difference. The word is what is God's revelation, not some supposedly mystical symbol on the title page.

 

[RevGood]

 

[robycop3]

Originally posted by Askjo:
Amen to that! No excuse for NKJV that were produced by the conservative translators because it makes the Satan happy if you use the NKJV with the symbol! Shame on those translators!

Proof, please?

Acts 17:29 "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device."

Exodus 20:4 "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

You are inventing a new meaning for those Scriptures. You know full well they pertain to idols and statues that were worshipped. How many KJVs have pictures in them that are supposedly of Mary?

When the NKJV with the symbol is seen, you use it then YOU break ALL of the 10 Commandments according to the Scriptures.

Proof, please?

Look at the NKJV -- 2,000 adulterated words in the NKJV are not the Word of God.

Once again, PROOF, PLEASE???

 

[robycop3]

Originally posted by Askjo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Johnv:
You have yet to prove your heretical claim that the KJV is God's word alone. You can't make a claim about another version and have it be valid unless you can support your primary claim first.

How many Bible(s) for English-speaking nation did God give us? </font>[/QUOTE]Evidently, quite a few. Proof? They exist, and that's self-evident.

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by ArcticBound:
SCOTTJ

If you don't even know what I said or what someone said to me then PLEASE don't criticize me before you get all the facts, That shows your prejudice against people who use only the King James Bible.

I HAVE no prejudice against the KJV of the Bible. I have used it since I was 6 and still do. What I knew about, I commented on. What I didn't know, I asked questions about to either confirm or negate my suspicions.

Your response here is an indirect confirmation.

I can assure you that I have disagreed with Johnv on several very significant issues. But that simply doesn't make either one of us "ungodly". When you go around making charges this serious against other professing Christians, you need to have both your heart and your facts right.

 

[robycop3]

Originally posted by Walls:
Hey Artic, that symbol is on a Led Zepplin album I used to listen to when I was a teenager, before salvation of course. It is also displayed on some United Methodist churches. The popular show Charmed has it in the beginning. My brother who named his dog Wicca, certainly can tell you what it means. Funny how a lost person can identify things of the devil.

Then you're implying that the KJVOs are lost, as THEY often see the devil in any man-made thing.

How many copies of the KJV contain "illuminations", paintings supposedly of biblical people such as Moses, Daniel, Mary, and Jesus Himself? Are THESE of the devil? Do they make the text of the KJV of the devil?

And what about the CROSS? Just enter 'pagan cross' into a search engine & see what pops up. How many millions of copies of the KJV have a cross on the cover ot title page?

 

[Scott J]

Originally posted by Spirit and Truth:
What were the publishers thinking?

And this is the beauty of this whole thing... all you have to do to understand what they were thinking is pick up a NKJV and read where they explain what the symbol represents. They say it represents the Holy Trinity. Perhaps they are liars. I doubt it but if you want set out to factually prove that they are.

I doubt that Satan, pagans, occultists, etc want anyone to read the NKJV. To answer Askjo's earlier charge further, I don't think "Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation" makes Satan giddy.

Are they that un- knowledgable about the occult and it's symbols? It is as insane as "Christian" tattoos.

Madonna was once asked why crosses played such a big role in her style. She answered that they were sexy... that the thought of a naked man on a cross was incredibly sexy.

Under your logic of "separation" shouldn't we now completely drop all use and mention of the cross? We're now sharing it with a grotesque blasphemer who seems to have always had an affinity for black clothing and dark themes/humor/environment.

Of course this is a ridiculous proposition... but it is no more ridiculous than KJVO attempts to discredit the NKJV based on a superficial image that happens to mean something negative to some non-Christians.

 

[ArcticBound]

SCOTTJ,

This is not a King James only Argument. It is simply about a Pagan symbol that is more looked as a Pagan symbol than as a Christian symbol. I have never realized this symbol was a Christian symbol. I've seen it with the Catholic Church and, of course, nearly everything they do is Pagan.

I don't believe Spirit and Truth is King James Only...PLEASE CORRECT ME (SPIRIT AND TRUTH) IF YOU ARE KING JAMES ONLY!

 

[robycop3]

Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ArcticBound:
SCOTTJ

If you don't even know what I said or what someone said to me then PLEASE don't criticize me before you get all the facts, That shows your prejudice against people who use only the King James Bible.

I HAVE no prejudice against the KJV of the Bible. I have used it since I was 6 and still do. What I knew about, I commented on. What I didn't know, I asked questions about to either confirm or negate my suspicions.

Your response here is an indirect confirmation.

I can assure you that I have disagreed with Johnv on several very significant issues. But that simply doesn't make either one of us "ungodly". When you go around making charges this serious against other professing Christians, you need to have both your heart and your facts right. </font>[/QUOTE]Scott, I'm sure YOU'RE familiar with this old KJVO thing, but for those who aren't-an old ploy of KJVOs is to cast aspersions upon the faith of those who disagree with them. They do this to attempt to distract the other readers from the fact that they have ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to support their claims.

Unlike the KJVOs, we Anti-OnlyismistsPROVEwhat we say. The proofs for the above statement are found in the posts of the KJVOs themselves. Just carefully read the post to which Scott is referring, for one example. Just read the posts in any versions discussion forum on any board for all the proof you need, and more. And while you're at it, you might look for any proof any KJVO has posted that supports his/her theory.

 

[robycop3]

Originally posted by ArcticBound:
SCOTTJ,

This is not a King James only Argument. It is simply about a Pagan symbol that is more looked as a Pagan symbol than as a Christian symbol. I have never realized this symbol was a Christian symbol. I've seen it with the Catholic Church and, of course, nearly everything they do is Pagan.

I don't believe Spirit and Truth is King James Only...PLEASE CORRECT ME (SPIRIT AND TRUTH) IF YOU ARE KING JAMES ONLY!

With all due respect, if you show the triquetra by itself, on a plain piece of paper, to most people & ask them what they think it is, most of them will say, it's something a child made with a Spirograph, or the logo of some college football team. Very few actually know what it is, or care.

 

[ArcticBound]

Sorry for the way I handled it. This is what my Bible says:
Joh 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

When someone lies, they are acting like the devil. When someone calls me a liar without any evidence, especially when I showed enough proof of this pagan symbol, It is like calling me the "Son of the Devil." I don't appreciate that!

If you really see nothing wrong with the Pagan Symbol on your bible, then atleast be honest. Instead of calling me a "BLATANT LIAR", simply say "yes it is used as a pagan symbol, but I see nothing wrong with Christians using it.

Instead of jumping to your defense against someone who uses the King James Bible.

The evidence is there that this symbol is used by witches, etc.

 

[timothy 1769]

Originally posted by LarryN:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by timothy 1769:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Scott J:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by timothy 1769:
I think most KJVO would not support the doubt inducing footnotes and the "improvements" to translation (archaic word updates excepted). I also think they should have kept the thee's and thou's.

Why? The AV 1611 had them and the KJV translators wrote a very good defense of their inclusion. </font>[/QUOTE]Well, the 1611 also had the apocrypha... The 1611 translators are not my authority, if they were I'd join the Episcopal Church (shudder). </font>[/QUOTE]Tim, help me out here. Why can KJVOnlyism get away with disavowing the KJV translators; while at the same time many KJVO's will lambaste users of any modern version as being essentially slavish devotees of Westcott & Hort, Kenneth Barker, et al. Isn't that more than a bit of a double standard? </font>[/QUOTE]I think it's better to focus on the translations rather than the translators. Of course a translation does say something about its translators, and one can theorize about how a translator's viewpoint could have led to a particular translation.

I think the KJV, in many ways, is God's Word in spite of its translators.

 

[ScottEmerson]

I always thought that the symbol pre-dated Christianity, but that the Christians adopted it about a thousand years ago. In this way, it is similar to the holiday of Christmas. However, I don't really hear much talk about us not celebrating the birth of Christ because of the origin of December 25th.

Come to think of it, I don't know that I've never seen a New Age mystic who didn't have some sort of cross around his or her neck or elsewhere. The cross still has a powerful meaning for the Christian, so why not the Triquetra?

 

[timothy 1769]

Originally posted by robycop3:
Unlike the KJVOs, we Anti-OnlyismistsPROVEwhat we say.

Prove any verse from the CT was in the autographs.

--

There's an element of faith in both our positions.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
Come to think of it, I don't know that I've never seen a New Age mystic who didn't have some sort of cross around his or her neck or elsewhere. The cross still has a powerful meaning for the Christian, so why not the Triquetra?

Several years ago, there was a book called "Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow" which "exposed" the New Age agenda. Several people in my church then ran around all willy-nilly, scared of everything that had a Triqueta, rainbow, the unicorn, etc.

Context, people, context! So what if pagans or new agers or whatever use a symbol? If that symbol has multiple meanings, *depending on context*, then why should we let their meaning and use of it affect OUR meaning and use of it?

Satanists use the hexagram - should we abolish the Star of David? Gays and Lesbians use the rainbow - should we abandon God's promise in Genesis? Many far east countries (China, etc) use a mirror-image of the Swastika as a symbol of good luck and properity - should we classify them as Nazis? Astrologers use the fish symbol, a virgin symbol, and a lion symbol in the zodiac. Should we run away from the Christian use of these things? The KKK uses the symbol of the cross. Should we think that any church that has a cross on its steeple or in its sanctuary is really connected to the KKK? NO, NO, NO. Symbols, like words, have context. This is a simple concept. It amazes me how many people trip over this.

God bless,
Brian

 

[LarryN]

Originally posted by Timothy1769:

I think it's better to focus on the translations rather than the translators. Of course a translation does say something about its translators, and one can theorize about how a translator's viewpoint could have led to a particular translation.

I think the KJV, in many ways, is God's Word in spite of its translators.

Wow Tim, so does this mean that non-KJVO's can expect to see a cessation of all attacks (by KJVO's) on the translators of the modern versions? Unfortunately, I don't think so.

It seems especially charitable of you to say that the KJV is God's Word "in spite of its translators"; when I doubt you're willing to grant any such leeway in the cases of the translators of any modern versions. On what fact(s) do you base such a double-standard?

 

[ArcticBound]

It looks like I am simply casting my pearls among the swine. You have already come to your conclusions. I still won't hang a Swastika around my house, nor put a burning cross in my yard, nor put a Triqueta on my Bible.

I think we showed enough evidence on this matter.

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by ArcticBound:
It looks like I am simply casting my pearls among the swine.

Oink oink!

You have already come to your conclusions. I still won't hang a Swastika around my house, nor put a burning cross in my yard, nor put a Triqueta on my Bible.

That's fine - if you can't understand how context works, or if you "doubt", then for you it is sin and you should not use the Triqueta. But don't try to impose your convictions on others. If you convinced me to never use a NKJV again because of its use of the Triqueta, to be consistent I would never use a KJV again either because of its use of the sun image of Baal. However, since I personally understand how context works, and have no problem with either the sun image or the Triqueta, I will abandon neither translation for such a petty reason.

Besides avoiding those symbols, are you going to be consistent and avoid the other symbols used for pagan purposes, such as the cross, the fish, the rainbow, etc?

I think we showed enough evidence on this matter.

I think you avoided enough evidence on this matter.

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by BrianT:
Several years ago, there was a book called "Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow" which "exposed" the New Age agenda. Several people in my church then ran around all willy-nilly, scared of everything that had a Triqueta, rainbow, the unicorn, etc.

Context, people, context! So what if pagans or new agers or whatever use a symbol? If that symbol has multiple meanings, *depending on context*, then why should we let their meaning and use of it affect OUR meaning and use of it?

Satanists use the hexagram - should we abolish the Star of David? Gays and Lesbians use the rainbow - should we abandon God's promise in Genesis? Many far east countries (China, etc) use a mirror-image of the Swastika as a symbol of good luck and properity - should we classify them as Nazis? Astrologers use the fish symbol, a virgin symbol, and a lion symbol in the zodiac. Should we run away from the Christian use of these things? The KKK uses the symbol of the cross. Should we think that any church that has a cross on its steeple or in its sanctuary is really connected to the KKK? NO, NO, NO. Symbols, like words, have context. This is a simple concept. It amazes me how many people trip over this.

God bless,
Brian

Well put Brian! God created all these things and God is more powerful than any organization! At least MY God is!

Diane