The "only" version?

[jeremiah1five]

Am starting this thread as another one got off OP

From the "how much authority..." page



I deleted the word "lies" as I am very cautious of that word.

But as far as KJO - the key word is "Only". If the KJ is the only (true) version - then what was the "only" version for the millieum before 1611?

I pretty much see it as an issue of authority.
God sits kings on their throne, and God sits down kings from their throne.
As King James I was head of both church and state the issue of authority.
The King James Version is the authorized version for the English-speaking people.
Yes, there was the Great Bible, the Bishops Bible - each of these 'authorized' in their own right.
But the King James Version has endured over 400 years this past 2011.

There is only One Person in whom both Church and State reside: Jesus Christ.

But lets be clear....before Christ returns God will use the Law, the Psalms and the Prophets to reveal to His Chosen People Israel their Messiah and Lord.

God will not use Christian theology, He will not use Calvin's Institutes, or "accept Jesus into your heart" heresy, He will not say to anyone, "God loves you."

Nor will He use the KJV.

The Originals will be found.

 

[Rippon]

In James White's book The King James Only Controversy I ran across something interesting.

He quoted John 6:47 in the KJV :
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. (bold print emphasized by KJVO'ers)

And then he quoted from the NIV:
Truly, truly, I say unto you, he who believes has eternal life.

Dr. White then quotes from the ever calm and dispassionate D.A. Waite:

"This is, perhaps, one of the CLEAREST theological errors in these three versions. To make salvation only a matter of 'believing' rather than solely, as Christ said in this verse, 'believing on Me,' is truly 'ANOTHER GOSPEL' !If you were trying to lead someone to Christ with the NIV or NASV, using this verse, they could 'believe' in anything and still have 'everlasting life' --whether in Santa Claus, in the Easter Bunny, in the Tooth Fairy, in Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer, or in any of the false world religions! This is SERIOUS THEOLOGICAL PERVERSION! This is certainly a matter of doctrine and theology." (Waite, Defending the King James Bible, 158)

 

[JonC]

In James White's book The King James Only Controversy I ran across something interesting.

He quoted John 6:47 in the KJV :
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. (bold print emphasized by KJVO'ers)

And then he quoted from the NIV:
Truly, truly, I say unto you, he who believes has eternal life.

Dr. White then quotes from the ever calm and dispassionate D.A. Waite:

"This is, perhaps, one of the CLEAREST theological errors in these three versions. To make salvation only a matter of 'believing' rather than solely, as Christ said in this verse, 'believing on Me,' is truly 'ANOTHER GOSPEL' !If you were trying to lead someone to Christ with the NIV or NASV, using this verse, they could 'believe' in anything and still have 'everlasting life' --whether in Santa Claus, in the Easter Bunny, in the Tooth Fairy, in Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer, or in any of the false world religions! This is SERIOUS THEOLOGICAL PERVERSION! This is certainly a matter of doctrine and theology." (Waite, Defending the King James Bible, 158)

Waite is a nut. Often we see the error of ignoring context but it takes a special kind of stupid to consciously do so.

 

[HankD]

Answer the questions I asked. And then try your best to tell me why the KJV translators chose money is the root of all evil, when it's easily demonstrable that it isn't.

Because the Spirit did not give them the gift of scripture inspiration.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

In James White's book The King James Only Controversy I ran across something interesting.

He quoted John 6:47 in the KJV :
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. (bold print emphasized by KJVO'ers)

And then he quoted from the NIV:
Truly, truly, I say unto you, he who believes has eternal life.

Dr. White then quotes from the ever calm and dispassionate D.A. Waite:

"This is, perhaps, one of the CLEAREST theological errors in these three versions. To make salvation only a matter of 'believing' rather than solely, as Christ said in this verse, 'believing on Me,' is truly 'ANOTHER GOSPEL' !If you were trying to lead someone to Christ with the NIV or NASV, using this verse, they could 'believe' in anything and still have 'everlasting life' --whether in Santa Claus, in the Easter Bunny, in the Tooth Fairy, in Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer, or in any of the false world religions! This is SERIOUS THEOLOGICAL PERVERSION! This is certainly a matter of doctrine and theology." (Waite, Defending the King James Bible, 158)

Dear Mr. Waite,

I've read your comment regarding a SERIOUS THEOLOGICAL PERVERSION at John 6:47

It seems you have missed the context and made a serious error as well. Now go back and read John 6:35, and John 6:40.

Give my love to Gail R.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

If you have his (White's) book (page 218) White shows clearly the person they should be believing in is Jesus Christ.

John 6:35 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.

John 6:40 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

The KJVO mindset (not all of them) lacks any real power of observation except for their subjectivism. I often think of Ben Shapiro when I see this type of nonreason. "Feelings are not facts". We all feel joy when we talk with our Savior. Feelings are still not facts.

 

[Logos1560]

The problem with Easter is that Passover comes first and then the 7 days of the unleavened bread. So it could not be Passover after the 7 days of the unleavened bread. So when Herod dealt with the disciples.... how does one keep the facts straight?

Acts 12:1Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. 2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. 3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.) 4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

Since it could not be the Passover, the 47 Biblical scholars for the KJV used Easter and confirmed it unanimously for Easter.

The 1599 Geneva Bible used Passover, but again, in translating from that Chaldee word in Greek, how can it mean the day of Passover when Passover precedes the 7 days of the unleavened bread in Jewish eyes back then?

Do you ignore some facts including some from the KJV?

Even the KJV demonstrates that the Hebrew word for the Passover was sometimes used for more than just the one day of the Passover. The meaning of the Hebrew word expanded to include sometimes the seven days of unleavened bread according to Ezekiel 45:21 in the KJV ["ye shall have the Passover, a feast of seven days"].

According to the KJV, Luke under inspiration of the Holy Spirit used the Greek word for the Passover for the feast of unleavened bread. Luke 22:1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.

You have not demonstrated that Luke could not use the same word at Acts 12:4 with the same meaning as he used it at Luke 22:1.

Perhaps you are unaware of the fact that there is historical evidence from the 1600's that all the KJV translators did not confirm and advocate the rendering "Easter" at Acts 12:4. That historical evidence indicates that the KJV translators may have actually put the rendering "the Passover" in their text at Acts 12:4 in agreement with the 1560 Geneva Bible, but a later Church of England prelate changed the rendering to "Easter."

 

[Rippon]

The Nas/Esv/Csb/Kjv/Nkjv are all the word of God to us in English!

Is that an exhaustive list, or representative?

 

[Yeshua1]

I wouldn't categorize careless and sloppy scribes as "satanic".

On the other hand some scholars believe that the Byzantine scribes conflated texts to make their final product "smooth".
Personally I don't believe this either.

Ancient papyri which predate both Alexandrian and Byzantine contain both types of variances.

Brother Cassidy did a report on this once. Byzantine readings have been found in ancient papyri:

HARRY A. STURZ, "The Byzantine Text-Type and New Testament Textual Criticism" (Book Review) - ProQuest

Somewhere out there lies the true text 100%.
We have enough manuscripts to calculate by algorithm the true text to within a percentage point or two.

Scribal carelessness is not God's fault.

Regardless of which greek text one prefers, they would have the word of the lord to us in one of thoe texts, and English transations done off any of them would be the word of the Lord to us in English also!

 

[Yeshua1]

God's Word is not a superficial matter. You should not rely on a translation but rather prayerfully study God's Word understand that the English versions are translations.

The Catholics-Anglicans who created the KJV Bible did not love God any more or less than those who worked on other versions.

They were also not inspired more than other translators !

 

[Yeshua1]

Just to be clear, I shall repeat the post.

My position on the only version is which version keeps His words in discerning good and evil by so you can defend the faith in Jesus Christ. You can only discern that with Him. I cannot convince you. If you do not see anything wrong with your modern version of Romans 8:26-27 with the truth in John 16:13 in seeing how the KJV kept that truth aligned, then I can't help you.

John 16:13 says the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues to utter His own intercessions in all Bible Versions.

However, Romans 8:26-27 in most modern Bibles testify to the contrary, but the KJV does not.

If you guys still do not see anything wrong with the still, after asking Jesus for help to see the lie, then I can't help you see why I rely only on the KJV for the meat of His words to discern good & evil by. Only He can show why I do. So ask Him..

The English translations such as the kjv/Nkjv/Esv/Nas/Csb/Niv are all of the English word of the lord unto us now!

 

[Yeshua1]

I rely on Jesus Christ as my Good Shepherd. After years of using the NASB and a daily Bible reading in the NIV, the Lord led me to use the KJV because of troubling verses that was going against the truth in other parts of scripture in those modern Bibles.

I have found the KJV on more than several occasions keeping the truths in His words that I just got fed up reading the Daily Bible reading in the NIV and just look at the selected references for the day ( not all of them ) and just read it in the KJV.

Again, only the Lord can confirm to you that the KJV is the one to rely on.

The Holy spirit will not confirm to any of us that the kjv is the only translation to trust and use, as that is not the truth, and He is the very Spirit of truth!

 

[Yeshua1]

Is that an exhaustive list, or representative?

Generic, as there are other valid english translations!
Yes, even your Niv would be included!

 

[Yeshua1]

Look at the finished product and discern with Him, brother. He is the only one that can help you discern which Bible version loved Him & His words to keep them from Gnostic influences.

Those "experts" that called the Alexandrian text as being stanaic/corrupted/perversions of the Bible were not 'led by the Spirit: in their pronouncments though!

Few of the KJVO txtual "experts" are really versed into what goes into the translation process!

 

[Yeshua1]

Dear Mr. Waite,

I've read your comment regarding a SERIOUS THEOLOGICAL PERVERSION at John 6:47

It seems you have missed the context and made a serious error as well. Now go back and read John 6:35, and John 6:40.

Give my love to Gail R.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

If you have his (White's) book (page 218) White shows clearly the person they should be believing in is Jesus Christ.

John 6:35 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.

John 6:40 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

The KJVO mindset (not all of them) lacks any real power of observation except for their subjectivism. I often think of Ben Shapiro when I see this type of nonreason. "Feelings are not facts". We all feel joy when we talk with our Savior. Feelings are still not facts.

The Nas in fact testifies more to the Lord jesus as being very God than even the Kjv did!

 

[37818]

The Nas in fact testifies more to the Lord jesus as being very God than even the Kjv did!

Please give an example.

 

[Salty]

Please give an example.

Not sure what Yesua wold say but how about the lack of archaic words - for one

 

[Yeshua1]

Please give an example.

The 4 times the Kjv translated "IT" for the Holy Spirit, and the times when the made the great God and savior as referring to 2 seperate persons, but actually both refers to Jesus Himself!

 

[37818]

The 4 times the Kjv translated "IT" for the Holy Spirit, and the times when the made the great God and savior as referring to 2 seperate persons, but actually both refers to Jesus Himself!

Please, at least, give one of those four references you are referring to. Thanks.

 

[Yeshua1]

Please, at least, give one of those four references you are referring to. Thanks.

Romans 8:16
Romans 8:26
Matthew 10:20
1 Peter 1:11

 

[37818]

Romans 8:16
Romans 8:26
Matthew 10:20
1 Peter 1:11

The Nas in fact testifies more to the Lord jesus as being very God than even the Kjv did!

How does correctly translating the Greek neuter regarding the Spirit in the Greek being neuter as "it" have anything to do with the Lord Jesus and His deity?