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The Origin of Originalism

Logos1560

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The exact, specific words spoken by Paul and other apostles by means of the Holy Spirit and later written referred to those words that were written in the original languages (1 Cor. 2:13, 2 Pet. 1:21, 2 Pet. 3:16, 2 Pet. 3:2, John 17:8, Luke 18:31, Heb. 1:1-2). The Lord Jesus Christ directly referred to “the things that are written by the prophets” (Luke 18:31), and the actual words directly written by the prophets themselves would have been in the original language in which God gave them by inspiration to the prophets. The oracles of God [the Old Testament Scriptures] given to the prophets were committed unto the Jews in the Jews‘ language (Rom. 3:2, Matt. 5:17-18, Luke 16:17). The specific features “jot“ and “tittle“ at Matthew 5:18 and the “tittle” at Luke 16:17 would indicate the particular original language words of the Scriptures given by inspiration of God to the prophets and would state something about language. Concerning Matthew 5:18, D. A. Waite noted: “This is a clear verse for Bible preservation of the original Hebrew text and, by extension, for the original Greek text” (Fundamentalist Mis-Information, p. 93). Steve Combs asserted: “When God made the promises of preservation, the words He promised to preserve were Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek words,” and he noted: “This is evident by the Scriptures themselves,” citing Matthew 5:18 (Practical Theology, p. 43). That which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet would be in the original language in which it was given by inspiration (Matt. 1:22, Matt. 2:15). The actual, specific, exact words which the LORD of hosts sent in His Spirit by the prophets would be in the original language in which God gave them (Zech. 7:12). The actual words written by the prophet would be in the same language in which he originally wrote them (Matt. 2:5, Luke 18:31). The exact words which “the prophets and Moses did say” (Acts 26:22) would be in the same language in which they stated them. Which are the same words spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets (Acts 3:21)? Would not the words spoken by the LORD by the prophets be in the language in which God gave them (2 Kings 21:10, 2 Kings 24:2)? It would be sound and true to conclude that the actual words of the prophets themselves would be in the original language in which they were given (Acts 15:15). The scriptures of the prophets (Rom. 15:26) would be in the language in which they were given to them. A writing from Elijah the prophet would be written in the language in which Elijah wrote it (2 Chron. 21:12). The actual words of Haggai the prophet would be in the language in which he spoke or wrote them (Haggai 1:12). The scroll of the LORD to be sought and read at the time that Isaiah the prophet wrote would have been a scroll written in Hebrew (Isa. 34:16). The apostle John referred to his own actual words he himself was writing in the language in which he wrote them (1 John 2:12-14). “Moses wrote all the words of the LORD” (Exod. 24:4). The Lord Jesus Christ stated: “For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?” (John 5:46-47). In another apparent reference to the writings of Moses, Jesus asked the Pharisees concerning whether they had not read them (Matt. 19:4, 7-8, Luke 10:26). The actual writings of Moses referred to by Jesus would have to be in the original language in which Moses directly wrote them. The word of the LORD by the hand of Moses (2 Chron. 35:6, Num. 4:45) would be in the original language in which Moses spoke or wrote it. The LORD commanded by the hand of Moses (Lev. 8:36, Num. 4:37, Num. 15:23, Num. 27:23), and the LORD had spoken by the hand of Moses (Lev. 10:11). In what language were the actual words written by the hand of Moses? When later Jewish scribes made a copy of the writings of Moses, they copied his same words in the same language in which Moses had originally wrote them. Do these Scripture passages teach or at least clearly infer that the doctrine of preservation would concern the actual specific original-language words given by inspiration of God to the prophets and apostles?

Do KJV-only advocates avoid or ignore those internal statements in the KJV that would indicate or affirm that preservation would concern the same original-language words spoken and written by the prophets and apostles?

A sound understanding of some additional Bible truths would affirm or demonstrate this scripturally-based point that Bible preservation would concern the Scriptures in the original languages. The scriptural truths (Deut. 4:2, Deut. 12:32, Prov. 30:6, Rev. 22:18-19) that warn against adding to and taking away from the Scriptures would clearly and directly relate to the doctrine of preservation and to the making of copies of the original-language Scriptures. Concerning which specific words did God directly state these warnings and instructions? These commands and instructions must embrace the Scriptures in the original languages since the very nature of translation requires that words may have to be added or omitted to make it understandable in another language. Thus, these verses were important instructions and warnings given particularly and directly concerning the Scriptures in the original languages. Would the meaning of these verses have to be reduced to nothing or near nothing to try to suggest that these warnings were directly given concerning Bible translations? These verses could also be understood to suggest that God gave to men an important role or responsibility in preservation of the Scriptures on earth. These commands or instructions would indicate the need and responsibility for the making of exact, accurate copies of the Scriptures in the original languages. These commands or instructions also demonstrate that the source being copied was the standard and authority for evaluating the copy made from it. These commands would also suggest that the copies of Scripture were not given or made by the means or process of a miracle of inspiration. For when a king [or whoever] copied them, he would have needed to make an accurate, exact, and complete copy of them to be able to “keep all the words” (Deut. 17:18-19).

A copy of Scripture should have the exact, same words as the source from which it was copied, and it could be tested or evaluated by its source (Exod. 34:1, Deut. 10:2, 4, Deut. 17:18, Deut. 27:8, Jer. 36:28, John 17:8, Jer. 23:28, 2 Tim. 2:2). Jesus gave the exact same words to the apostles or disciples that God the Father gave to Him (John 17:8, John 14:24, John 12:49-50). The same words or things spoken by the apostle Paul were to be committed to faithful men (2 Tim. 2:2).

A logical and sound deduction or necessary consequence from the instructions in several verses of Scripture (Deut. 4:2, Deut. 12:32, Prov. 30:6, Rev. 22:18-19) would indicate and affirm that copies would need to be carefully examined, searched, tried, or evaluated to make sure that no additions were made, that nothing was omitted, that no words were changed, and that the meaning of words according to their context was not diminished. The truth stated in these verses could be properly understood to indicate that whatever adds to, takes away, or diminishes (whether intentional or unintentional) would not be the word of God. These scriptural instructions and truths provide sound guidance concerning how to know the words which the LORD has or has not spoken (Deut. 18:21-22, Jer. 23:16, Jer. 23:35, Ezek. 22:28). Would words that go beyond those words that God actually gave to the prophets and apostles be considered the actual pure words of God (Num. 22:18)? There is such a thing as the possible adding of words in copies or in Bible translations. It can be properly and legitimately concluded from the Scriptures that God has not directly spoken words added by men and that any words omitted by copiers should be restored (Deut. 4:2, Deut. 12:32, Prov. 30:6, Rev. 22:18). According to scriptural truth, words added by men cannot soundly be considered as being words given by inspiration of God. Since the law or word of the LORD is perfect (Ps. 19:7, James 1:25) and since perfection by definition would exclude the presence of even one imperfection, would imperfect or inaccurate renderings made by men or any errors introduced by men be identical to the perfect words of God given to the prophets and apostles? Since the statues or words of the LORD are right (Ps. 19:8, Ps. 33:4) and since the words of God are true (Ps. 19:9, John 17:17, Ps. 119:160, Dan. 10:21), it can be soundly and scripturally concluded that any wrong words or errors introduced by imperfect men would not be the absolutely pure words of God. It can be also properly concluded that any errors introduced by men in copying, in printing, or in translating are not words spoken or given by God. Any error introduced by a copier, printer, or whomever in copies and in Bible translations can be and should be corrected. It could also be soundly concluded that any words perverted, diminished, or mistranslated by men are not actual words spoken by God (Jer. 23:36, Deut. 4:2, Jer. 23:28, Deut. 12:32, 2 Cor. 2:17, Jer. 23:16, Jer. 26:2). Maintaining that errors introduced by men or words added by men are not the pure inspired words of God would be soundly distinguishing between what is holy and pure and what is not.
 

Oseas3

Well-Known Member
The exact, specific words spoken by Paul and other apostles by means of the Holy Spirit and later written referred to those words that were written in the original languages (1 Cor. 2:13, 2 Pet. 1:21, 2 Pet. 3:16, 2 Pet. 3:2, John 17:8, Luke 18:31, Heb. 1:1-2). The Lord Jesus Christ directly referred to “the things that are written by the prophets” (Luke 18:31), and the actual words directly written by the prophets themselves would have been in the original language in which God gave them by inspiration to the prophets.
The oracles of God [the Old Testament Scriptures] given to the prophets were committed unto the Jews in the Jews‘ language (Rom. 3:2, Matt. 5:17-18, Luke 16:17).
I would still add more this Scriptures, as follow:

JESUS said to the Jews: John 5:v.43-47

43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name
(AN

IMPOSTOR, A FALSE MESSIAH, AN USURPER)
him ye will receive.

44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father:
there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me;
for Moses wrote of me.

47
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


And more these Scriptures - Acts 3:v.22-24

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. - a sequence of confirmations -
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
You are trying to read your human KJV-only opinions into 2 Timothy 3:15-17 passage. It has not been soundly demonstrated at all that 2 Timothy 3:15-17 supports human KJV-only teaching.

Since the words of the New Testament proceeded from the mouth of God by inspiration to the apostles and NT prophets, the supernatural process of inspiration of the NT is involved with the quotations from the Hebrew OT and with the quotations from pagan poets. The process of the giving of the NT by inspiration to the apostles and NT prophets covers all the words of the NT including any quotations.

I agree with what you said in the second paragraph.

If you were to trust that God was willing to provide His inspired word today perhaps we would not be having this conversation but since only the originals are inspired, which no one this side of God can see, you trust in an invisible which does not exist today.

You cannot even give me a couple of proof texts from the bible to back your position.
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
The Scriptures are the specific revealed, written words of God given by the miracle of inspiration to the prophets and apostles. According to the Scriptures, God revealed His Word to the prophets and apostles by the Holy Spirit (Eph. 3:5, 2 Pet. 1:21, 2 Pet. 3:1-2, Rom. 15:4, 1 Cor. 2:10-13, Rom. 16:25-26, Heb. 1:1-2, Acts 1:2, Eph. 2:20, Acts 3:21, John 16:13, John 17:8, 14, John 3:34, 2 Sam. 23:2, Luke 24:25, 27, 44). The word of the LORD came to the prophets and apostles (1 Sam. 15:10, 2 Kings 20:4, Isa. 38:4, Jer. 1:4, Jer. 29:30, Ezek. 6:1, Dan. 9:2, Jonah 1:1, Zech. 7:8, Acts 3:21). A true prophet spoke from the mouth of the LORD (2 Chron. 36:12, Luke 1:70, Jer. 1:9, Acts 3:21, 2 Sam. 23:2, Deut. 18:22). The actual specific words that proceeded out of the mouth of God or that God breathed out are those original language words given by inspiration to the prophets and apostles (Matt. 4:4, Deut. 8:3, Luke 4:4, Isa. 55:11). God’s Word is “the Scriptures of the prophets” (Rom. 16:26, Matt. 26:56). God gave His words or spoke by the mouth of the prophets (Luke 1:70, Jer. 1:9, Acts 1:16, Acts 3:21, Ps. 68:11, 2 Chron. 36:12). All Scripture was given by inspiration of God to those prophets and apostles (2 Tim. 3:16, 2 Pet. 1:21, 2 Pet. 3:1-2, Eph. 3:5, Eph. 2:20, Jude 1:3). While 2 Timothy 3:16 may not directly mention the prophets and apostles, the parallel verse concerning inspiration (2 Pet. 1:21) clearly connected the miracle of inspiration to them when considered with other related verses in the whole of Scripture. Comparing scripture with scripture, the holy men of God moved or borne along by the Holy Spirit in the miracle of inspiration were clearly the prophets and apostles (2 Pet. 1:21, Eph. 3:5, Eph. 2:20, 2 Pet. 3:1-2, Rom. 16:26, Luke 1:70, Matt. 26:56). The exact same words that the psalmist wrote in Psalm 95 the Holy Spirit spoke or said (compare Ps. 95:7 with Hebrews 3:7). What Moses said to Pharaoh as the LORD told him (Exod. 9:13), the Scripture said (Rom. 9:17, Exod. 9:16). The whole counsel of God or the overall teaching of the Scriptures would indicate that there can be no new inspired works without living apostles or prophets (2 Peter 1:21, Eph. 3:3-5, Heb. 1:1-2, Luke 1:70, 24:27, 44-45, Acts 1:16, 3:21, 26:27, Matt. 2:5, Rom. 1:2, Rom. 16:25-26, Jer. 29:19, 2 Chron. 36:12, Dan. 9:10, Amos 3:7).

Since the entire Old Testament was designated by God with names such as "Moses and the prophets," "the law and the prophets," “all the prophets and the law,“ and “the scriptures of the prophets,“ this could be understood to indicate that all the O. T. writers should be regarded as prophets (Luke 16:29, 16:31, 24:27; Matt. 5:17, 7:12, 11:13, 22:40, 26:56; Luke 16:16; John 6:45, Acts 24:14, 26:22, 28:23; Rom. 1:2, 3:21, 16:26). The writer of Hebrews could be understood to describe the entire Old Testament as what God spoke by the prophets (Heb. 1:1). At Luke 16:29, the writer (Moses) is put for his writings. Moses was a prophet (Deut. 34:16). Since the Psalms is sometimes included in the designation "the prophets," it would suggest that the writers of the individual psalms could have been considered prophets. In addition, individual writers of the Psalms were referred to as prophets (Matt. 13:35, Acts 2:30). The writers who received the revelation concerning Christ that would be recorded in the New Testament also seem to be regarded as being prophets or apostles or both (Eph. 3:3-5, 2:20). The N. T. prophets given to the church may refer especially to those prophets that were given revelation that would be written as part of the New Testament (1 Cor. 12:28, Eph. 4:11, Eph. 3:3-5, Eph. 2:20). Along with the Old Testament, New Testament writings are also called Scripture (2 Pet. 3:15-16, 1 Tim. 5:18). The apostle Peter maintained that the commandment of the apostles is connected with the words revealed and spoken by the prophets (2 Pet. 3:1-2). The apostle Paul noted that his writing or epistle was “the commandments of the Lord” (1 Cor. 14:37).

According to the Scriptures themselves, it could be soundly concluded that inspiration would be a term for the way, method, means, or process by which God directly gave the Scriptures to the prophets and apostles or for the way that the words proceeded from the mouth of God to the prophets and apostles (2 Tim 3:16, 2 Pet. 1:21, Matt. 4:4, Eph. 3:5, Deut. 8:3).

Jim Taylor defined the term inspiration as follows: “A process by which God breathed out his very words through holy men in order that his very words could be recorded’” (In Defense of the TR, p. 328). Jim Taylor affirmed: “As a theological definition, inspiration is a process” (p. 33). Jim Taylor asserted: “Inspiration is a process which was completed when the last New Testament writer wrote the last word” (p. 34). Tim Fellure noted: “Inspiration describes the process of employing human authors to record God’s revelation” (neither jot nor tittle, p. 19). David Cloud maintained that 2 Timothy 3:16 “describes the original process of the giving of Scripture,” and he noted that “the same process is described in 2 Peter 1:19-21” (Glorious History of the KJB, p. 213). David Cloud observed: “Inspiration does not refer to the process of transcribing or translating the Bible, but to the process of God giving the words to the men who wrote the Bible” (O Timothy, Vol. 11, Issue 11, 1994, p. 4). David Cloud noted: “The process of inspiration was something that was completed in the apostolic age” (Faith, p. 55). D. A. Waite wrote: “By the term ‘inspiration’ we must understand primarily the process by which God caused His original words to be penned down by the ‘Holy Men of God’ (2 Peter 1:20-21) whom He assigned to that task” (Dean Burgon News, June, 1980, p. 3). D. A. Waite asserted: “The process of inspiration does apply to the original manuscripts (known as the autographs). This process was never repeated” (Fundamentalist Mis-Information, p. 106). Waite wrote: “The originals were given by the process of inspiration” (p. 47). Waite noted: “It is true that the process of inspiration applies only to the autographs and resulted in inspired Words—the original Words of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek being given by God’s process of breathing out His Words” (p. 56). Steve Combs wrote: “A clear statement of the process and product of inspiration is found in Matthew 4:4” (Practical Theology, p. 34). Charles Kriessman wrote: “Inspiration is a process by which God breathed out His Words from Genesis to Revelation” (Modern Version Failures, p. 46). Jack McElroy wrote: “Sounds like inspiration is a method or process, doesn’t it?” (Which Bible, p. 238). Charles Kriessman quoted Thomas Strouse as stating: “Inspiration is a process whereby the Holy Spirit led the writers of Scripture to record accurately His very Words; the product of this process was the inspired originals” (p. 47). Thomas Strouse wrote: “Paul’s claim then, is that only, and all, of the autographa is inspired by God, or is God breathed. The process of inspiration extends to only the autographa, and to all of the autographa” (Lord God Hath Spoken, p. 43). Thomas Strouse noted: “The Holy Ghost came upon holy but fallible men so that they were Divinely moved (pheromenoi) in the process of inspiration to produce the product of inspiration, namely the autographa” (Brandenburg, Thou Shalt Keep, p. 240). In his note on 2 Timothy 3:16, Peter Ruckman asserted: “The process of ‘inspiration’ is the Holy Spirit breathing His words through somebody’s mouth (2 Pet. 1:21) and these words then being written down” (Ruckman Reference Bible, p. 1591). Irving Jensen noted: “We cannot explain the supernatural process of inspiration, which brought about the original writings of the Bible. Paul refers to the process as God-breathing” (Jensen’s Survey of the OT, p. 19). Gregory Tyree asserted: “This process of inspiration will never again be repeated because the canon has been closed” (Does It Really Matter, p. 32). Does 2 Timothy 3:16 state how scripture is given? Gordon Clark observed: “In ordinary language the word how always refers to a process” (Religion, Reason, p. 138). Did the process of the giving of the Scriptures by inspiration to God to the prophets and apostles end with the completion of the New Testament?

This is admirable but please show me from the bible, yes type out the actual scriptures, that say "only the originals are inspired".

You can say I am too dumb to follow your logic and I will agree.

But I do not want logic; I want scripture that proves your position.
 

Logos1560

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You cannot even give me a couple of proof texts from the bible to back your position.

You were given plenty of scripture to back up my acceptance of what the Scriptures state and teach.
My position is based on the whole counsel of God in the Scriptures. The Scriptures clearly identify the words given to the prophets and apostles as being what was given by inspiration of God.

You close your eyes to the scripturally-based truths that were presented as you try to avoid or dismiss the truth.

The Scriptures do not suggest that any translation made after the completion of the New Testament and after the end of the giving of new revelation from God was given by inspiration of God.
The Scriptures do not teach your modern, human, non-scriptural KJV-only theory. You present no scriptures that prove your subjective, human KJV-only opinions to be scriptural. Do you advocate following the opinions and traditions of men in human KJV-only reasoning?
 

Logos1560

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God is the God of order, and He established the order or primacy [the state of being first or foremost] with the preserved Scriptures in the original languages serving as the one foundation and authority on which Bible translations would need to be based or built. Almighty God gave or laid the foundation on which Bible translations depend. The Scriptures in the original languages obviously preceded any later Bible translations.

No other foundation for Bible translations can be laid than the one God Himself laid when He gave the Scriptures in the original languages by the miracle of inspiration to the prophets and apostles (Eph. 2:20, 2 Tim. 3:16, 2 Pet. 1:21, Eph. 3:5, 1 Cor. 2:13, Ps. 11:3, 1 Cor. 3:11).

Puritan William Whitaker wrote: “The church is said (Eph. 2:20) to be built upon the foundation of the prophets and apostles, that is, upon the prophetic and apostolic doctrine; therefore the prophetic and apostolic doctrine, that is, the whole scripture, and the approbation of the same, preceded the church” (Disputation on Holy Scripture, pp. 347-348). William Whitaker added: “The foundation of the prophets and apostles in this place actually does denote the scripture” (p. 348). William Whitaker also observed that “Ambrose says that by the foundation in this place is understood the old and new Testaments” (p. 349). Again concerning Ephesians 2:20, William Whitaker asserted: “This foundation denotes the doctrine of the scriptures, promulgated by the prophets and apostles” (p. 50). Reformer Francis Turretin noted that the word of God is “the foundation upon which we are built (Eph. 2:20)” (Institutes, I, p. 55). Francis Turretin maintained that “the church is built upon the Scripture (Eph. 2:20) and borrows all authority from it” (I, p. 88). In 1684, David Dickson wrote: “The Scriptures are the foundation, upon which the church is built (Eph. 2:20) (Truth’s Victory over Error, p. 3). Concerning Ephesians 2:20 in his commentary, John MacArthur asserted: “The foundation of the apostles and prophets refers to the divine revelation that they taught, which in its written form is the New Testament” (p. 82). Concerning this same verse, the Henry Morris Study Bible noted: “The ’foundation of the apostles and prophets,’ upon which the great house must be built, clearly refers to the Scriptures which they wrote under divine inspiration. The New Testament was given ‘by revelation‘ (3:3), ‘revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit‘ (3:5)” (p. 1809). Vishal Mangalwadi wrote: “The church was ‘built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets,’ that is, on the New and Old Testaments” (Book that Made Your World, p. 397).

Scriptural truth concerning a foundation established by God would conflict with any human attempt to make a translation the final authority. KJV-only advocate Ed Moore admitted: “No one should seek to set any translation up over the majority text of the original languages” (Final Authority, p. 15).
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
Please do not mix in stuff about KJJVOOdo, it takes away from any legitimate argument you might have.
You have yet to write a copy of the scriptures which actually state your position of onlyism.
If you are steadfast in your belief then you trust that man is the interpreter, not the copyist, of the words of God.
How then can you trust ANY bible?

The translators are not the writers of scripture.
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
Here is another quote about the founder of your "onlyism", Simon,

A critical history of the New Testament

Richard Simon (1638-1712) was a French controversialist and influential biblical critic, often called the "father of biblical criticism." Simon was an Oratorian and worked as the cataloguer of the library's Oriental books as an eastern language specialist. His criticism of the Old Testament (Histoire critique du Vieux Testament, 1678) was censored (and destroyed) in France, due to Simon's statements that Moses could not have been the author of the Pentateuch and his criticism of the early church fathers. "One of Simon's goals in this work was to prove to Protestants that the Hebrew OT (and all versions and translations) and its text were too unreliable and uncertain to be the basis of the faith, thus affirming the long-held Catholic view." Watson Mills, Mercer Commentary on the New Testament (2003), p. 42. Simon was heavily influenced by Spinoza's historical methods and he responds to Spinoza's criticism in this text. While persecuted by Boussuet and the French authorities, Simon's suppressed work had considerable influence because it used a historical-critical methodology for Biblical criticism. Simon's attempts to reaffirm the soundness of the Catholic Church on a historical - scientific basis by opening the Bible up to criticism and interpretation was self defeating, because it allowed for more radical revisions and reassessment of faith and scripture. The English translation was widely read. Newton and Locke both read and wrote extensively on Simon's work. See: Westfall, Never at Rest: A biography of Isaac Newton 1983, p. 490. Wing S3798
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Here is another quote about the founder of your "onlyism", Simon,

Your bogus assertion would bear false witness. You invent a straw man which you attack.

That person is not at all the founder of my actual scripturally-based position. My position comes from the Scriptures, not from any man. That person was not even born when God gave the scriptural truths (that I accept) to the prophets and apostles. A man in the 1600's can not be the founder of what the Scriptures state.

In their 1611 preface, the Church of England makers of the KJV acknowledged that the existing, preserved Scriptures in the original languages are the proper standard and greater authority for the making and trying of all Bible translations.
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
Your bogus assertion would bear false witness. You invent a straw man which you attack.

That person is not at all the founder of my actual scripturally-based position. My position comes from the Scriptures, not from any man. That person was not even born when God gave the scriptural truths (that I accept) to the prophets and apostles. A man in the 1600's can not be the founder of what the Scriptures state.

In their 1611 preface, the Church of England makers of the KJV acknowledged that the existing, preserved Scriptures in the original languages are the proper standard and greater authority for the making and trying of all Bible translations.

"my actual scripturally-based position" came to this thread just like the doctrine of "only the originals are inspired"
and your doctrine of "the preface of any bible is scripture".
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
this thread

Your thread shows that you disobey the Scriptures as your bogus allegations and misrepresentations would bear false witness against those Bible-believers that you attack.

You show that you do not understand the Bible-believing views of those whom you attempt to smear and misrepresent by use of the fallacy of guilt by association as you try improperly to associate them with a Roman Catholic.

Use of fallacies [false arguments], use of carnal smear tactics, and use of false allegations and bogus distortions seem to be the only assertions that you can present for your non-scriptural opinions.
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Lancelot Andrewes (1555-1626), a leading KJV translator, wrote: "Look to the original, as, for the New Testament, the Greek text; for the Old, the Hebrew" (Pattern of Catechistical Doctrine, p. 59).
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
Still waiting for that straight scripture which more or less says only the originals are inspired.
 

SGO

Well-Known Member
While you are waiting here is another less damaging article for your perusal:

The Rise of Biblical Criticism in the Enlightenment - The Gospel Coalition
  1. Richard Simon (1638-1712) proposed that his Critical History of the Old Testament answered Spinoza’s objections to the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch and to an orthodox understanding of biblical authority. Simon indicated Israel had “Public scribes” who kept the biblical scrolls. These scribes were inspired of God and wrote passages in the Pentateuch not penned by Moses. The “public scribes” sometimes did not keep the scrolls in a proper order and they introduced “errors” into tiexts. He denied that the Bible afforded sufficient details from which to establish an infallible historical chronology. Simon moved beyond “Critica Sacra”, the initiative to establish the original texts of Scripture, to the advocacy of several principles identified later with “Higher Criticism.”
 

Logos1560

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Site Supporter
  1. Richard Simon (1638-1712)
You continue your bogus use of the incorrect fallacy of guilty by association. Richard Simon has nothing to do with my scripturally-based position regardless of what you may vainly and falsely allege. Your thread is a waste of time that does nothing to back up what you attempt incorrectly to allege.
It should be clear that Richard Simon was not the founder of the position advocated by the KJV translators concerning the originals since he was not even born in 1611. Some of your posts clearly make bogus, false assertions, which you have not corrected.

You were presented with far more scriptural truths from the whole counsel of God than you try to present for your following the opinions and traditions of men. You prove that you do not practice what you preach.
 
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SGO

Well-Known Member
Scripture which agrees with and states more or less that only the originals are inspired?
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It is clear from the Scriptures that what God gave to the prophets and apostles was what was given by supernatural process of inspiration of God [the words that proceeded from the mouth of God to the prophets and apostles]. You try to dodge or dismiss the scriptural truths that have been presented.

On the other hand, you have not cited any scripture that states that after the end of the giving of the New Testament that any later translation made by imperfect men who were not prophets nor apostles would be made by a direct miracle of inspiration of God.
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
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SGO, because you may choose to ignore or reject what the Scriptures state and teach does not change what they teach. You have not answered nor refuted the scriptural truths that I presented.
 
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