The plausibility of John 3:18

[Iconoclast]

Pal, I don’t reject that the Christ is the only begotten of God. Your actions are quite unbecoming of someone who a moderator of a Christian site. To even make that statement is in bad taste, but that’s you.

Here’s how this goes. Say I am born in a place where the gospel has never been proclaimed. A place where no bible has even been seen, handled, read. I can look at all I see there and know there is a god. However, all I see doesn’t tell me that God sent His Son to live, be crucified, rise again three days later and ascend to the Father. If I die in my sins, I was condemned, not because I rejected the Christ, but because I was born condemned/judged already in Adam.

yes...sadly this is becoming a pattern like our friend DHK...out of control, no checks and balances...I just posted the same thing as you have.

 

[Reformed1689]

yes...sadly this is becoming a pattern like our friend DHK...out of control, no checks and balances...I just posted the same thing as you have.

Ultimately it is the point I am trying to make as well.

 

[JonC]

Pal, I don’t reject that the Christ is the only begotten of God. Your actions are quite unbecoming of someone who a moderator of a Christian site. To even make that statement is in bad taste, but that’s you.

Here’s how this goes. Say I am born in a place where the gospel has never been proclaimed. A place where no bible has even been seen, handled, read. I can look at all I see there and know there is a god. However, all I see doesn’t tell me that God sent His Son to live, be crucified, rise again three days later and ascend to the Father. If I die in my sins, I was condemned, not because I rejected the Christ, but because I was born condemned/judged already in Adam.

First, be VERY careful with the false accusations and insults. They are quite unbecoming a child of God.

I asked what part of that you disagreed with. My post that you found disagreeable was very simple. I said that those who do not believed are condemned already because they do not believe in Christ. It is obvious you do not agree, but you have not highlighted the part you reject.

 

[Iconoclast]

Ultimately it is the point I am trying to make as well.

Whenever a person denies that spiritual death entered in the day Adam sinned, followed by physical death you are going to open the door to many failed and defective ideas. No one faults people in history for trying to explore all manner of teaching. When the teaching is rejected, most times it is for good reason.
We are seeing an attempt to introduce false ideas from times past as if they are biblical, but clearly, they have missed the mark and are to be rejected.

 

[SovereignGrace]

First, be VERY careful with the false accusations and insults. They are quite unbecoming a child of God.

I asked what part of that you disagreed with. My post that you found disagreeable was very simple. I said that those who do not believed are condemned already because they do not believe in Christ. It is obvious you do not agree, but you have not highlighted the part you reject.

Don’t retreat like a turtle to its shell, man up here. You said “if I reject the notion that the Christ is not the only begotten of the Father.” You’re bullying me here using your mod status to push me and I won’t stand for it. I have NEVER reject what you asked me if I reject it.

 

[Reformed1689]

Don’t retreat like a turtle to its shell, man up here. You said “if I reject the notion that the Christ is not the only begotten of the Father. You’re bullying me here using your mod status to push me and I won’t stand for it. I have NEVER reject what you asked me if I reject it.

HERE HERE!

 

[JonC]

What @davidtaylorjr , @Iconoclast , and @SovereignGrace seems to be ignoring (intentionally?) is all I did was state that he who does not believe has been judged already because he has not believed in Christ. The verse states "he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

I did not invent the passage. I offered no interpretation of the passage except that I believe it refers to all non-believers. That's it. I have to wonder why these would go so far as to argue against the post. I suspect an agenda. But I don't know, or really care.

As for me, I believe the passage is literal. Those who do not believe are judged already because they have not believed in the name of Christ. Period. No amount of insults or thugish behavior will change my mind.

 

[Reformed1689]

What @davidtaylorjr , @Iconoclast , and @SovereignGrace seems to be ignoring (intentionally?) is all I did was state that he who does not believe has been judged already because he has not believed in Christ. The verse states "he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

I did not invent the passage. I offered no interpretation of the passage except that I believe it refers to all non-believers. That's it. I have to wonder why these would go so far as to argue against the post. I suspect an agenda. But I don't know, or really care.

As for me, I believe the passage is literal. Those who do not believe are judged already because they have not believed in the name of Christ. Period. No amount of insults or thugish behavior will change my mind.

What I do not understand is why you will not answer a simple question. Did Adam have to believe in Christ to have eternal life before the fall? Yes or no? That's not an insult, that is not thuggish behavior, it is a simple question. Why can't you answer it?

 

[SovereignGrace]

What @davidtaylorjr , @Iconoclast , and @SovereignGrace seems to be ignoring (intentionally?) is all I did was state that he who does not believe has been judged already because he has not believed in Christ. The verse states "he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

I did not invent the passage. I offered no interpretation of the passage except that I believe it refers to all non-believers. That's it. I have to wonder why these would go so far as to argue against the post. I suspect an agenda. But I don't know, or really care.

As for me, I believe the passage is literal. Those who do not believe are judged already because they have not believed in the name of Christ. Period. No amount of insults or thugish behavior will change my mind.

Thuggish behavior?

You mean this?

I am not twisting anything. I am saying that he who does not believe has been judged already because he has not believe in the name of Christ. The verse states "he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

If you disagree than I suspect it is your theology guiding your misinterpretation as the text is very plainly stated. Unless, of course, you reject that Christ IS the "only begotten Son of God"....that is the only part I was not exact on (I used "Christ" instead of "only begotten Son of God").

I have copied and save these posts because we know they will go poof.

 

[JonC]

Don’t retreat like a turtle to its shell, man up here. You said “if I reject the notion that the Christ is not the only begotten of the Father.” You’re bullying me here using your mod status to push me and I won’t stand for it. I have NEVER reject what you asked me if I reject it.

This is what I posted:

I am not twisting anything. I am saying that he who does not believe has been judged already because he has not believe in the name of Christ. The verse states "he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

If you disagree than I suspect it is your theology guiding your misinterpretation as the text is very plainly stated. Unless, of course, you reject that Christ IS the "only begotten Son of God"....that is the only part I was not exact on (I used "Christ" instead of "only begotten Son of God").

And that is what I meant. No amount of false accusations will change that "brother". There are only a few options here. If you disagree with the passage then I can see two reasons. Either it is your theology or my using "Christ" in the passage.

Now it is up to you. Are you going to be a man and admit you pushed the boundaries here? Or are you going to go along with the crowd as a lackey defending your "gang"? I think I know, but it's up to you.

 

[Reformed1689]

Now it is up to you. Are you going to be a man and admit you pushed the boundaries here? Or are you going to go along with the crowd as a lackey defending your "gang"? I think I know, but it's up to you.

Thuggish behavior.

 

[Iconoclast]

What @davidtaylorjr , @Iconoclast , and @SovereignGrace seems to be ignoring (intentionally?) is all I did was state that he who does not believe has been judged already because he has not believed in Christ. The verse states "he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God".

I did not invent the passage. I offered no interpretation of the passage except that I believe it refers to all non-believers. That's it. I have to wonder why these would go so far as to argue against the post. I suspect an agenda. But I don't know, or really care.

As for me, I believe the passage is literal. Those who do not believe are judged already because they have not believed in the name of Christ. Period. No amount of insults or thugish behavior will change my mind.

People cannot believe in who they never heard of.
romans10:
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

If you deny Spiritual death took place in the garden you cannot come to truth.
I do not say that you will not offer an answer, but it will defective and error.

 

[JonC]

Thuggish behavior?

You mean this?



I have copied and save these posts because we know they will go poof.

Uh...yea. That "proves" I said you don't believe Jesus is the only begotten Son.

 

[SovereignGrace]

This is what I posted:


And that is what I meant. No amount of false accusations will change that "brother". There are only a few options here. If you disagree with the passage then I can see two reasons. Either it is your theology or my using "Christ" in the passage.

Now it is up to you. Are you going to be a man and admit you pushed the boundaries here? Or are you going to go along with the crowd as a lackey defending your "gang"? I think I know, but it's up to you.

False accusations? You mean when you asked me if I reject the Christ is the only begotten of the Father? I know you posted it as a question, but I would NEVER ask anyone such a foolish question, never.

Passive aggressive much?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Uh...yea. That "proves" I said you don't believe Jesus is the only begotten Son.

This is no laughing matter, pal.

 

[Reformed1689]

Can someone pass the popcorn please?

 

[JonC]

Thuggish behavior.

Yes. Thuggish behavior. What I mean here is that @SovereignGrace pulled the very last comment on a series of "if" and "unless" comments and claimed I was stating the last. From there you and @Iconoclast jumped on board (as predicted before y'all jumped on board). This is what I mean by thuggish behavior. It's a "gang" mentality - a "jump on the one that differs with our opinion" even if the accusation is obviously false.

 

[SovereignGrace]

People cannot believe in who they never heard of.
romans10:
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

If you deny Spiritual death took place in the garden you cannot come to truth.
I do not say that you will not offer an answer, but it will defective and error.

That’s what I’ve been positing all along.

 

[JonC]

This is no laughing matter, pal.

That you are an full grown man, yet you have taken the last of a series of possibilities I offered as a statement of what I claim is, in truth, no laughing matter. It is very sad.

That you think it is "proof", however, is funny.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yes. Thuggish behavior. What I mean here is that @SovereignGrace pulled the very last comment on a series of "if" and "unless" comments and claimed I was stating the last. From there you and @Iconoclast jumped on board (as predicted before y'all jumped on board). This is what I mean by thuggish behavior. It's a "gang" mentality - a "jump on the one that differs with our opinion" even if the accusation is obviously false.

Here’s the thing, I would have NEVER asked you that question. I know you believe He is the only begotten of God, as John 1:14 states.

It was rather unseemly for you to even ask me that question. That’s what got my dander up.