Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
Compare Ephesians 2:1-3 with Ephesians 4:17-19. Chapter 4:17-19 enlightens us as to what "dead" means.
Ephesians 4:17 So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; 19 and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness. [/b]
Pastor, thank you for your response. First, let me say I really sat down and considered this passage as a support for the Calvinistic view of "dead" as in relates to Total Depravity. Here are some of my conclusions:
According to this verse what does a lost man look like?
1. Futility of the mind
2. Darkened in their understanding
3. Excluded from life with God
The question is WHY do they have futile minds, darkened understanding and have been excluded from life with God? You obviously imply it is because they are spiritually dead from birth.
I agree. Their spiritual deadness lead them to become futile in their thinking and darkened in their hearts...
Romans 1:21: "...because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. "
Notice however they weren't born that way, they BECAME that way after they saw and
UNDERSTOOD who God was through His revelation. Which Paul says is why all man is without excuse. Notice this, they are without excuse because they UNDERSTOOD and KNEW God. Calvinism takes that away. You say lost men never understood and never knew God, thus you create an excuse for man with your dogma. Look at this verse:
18 For God's wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth,
Rom. 1:19 since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them. 20 From the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
This is a deathblow to the Calvinistic teachings that repobates can't know or understand the things of God. This verse clearly shows that what CAN be know about God was EVIDENT among them because God showed it to them.
What did He show them?
1. Eternal power
2. Divine Nature
This passage shows that these attributes were CLEARLY SEEN and UNDERSTOOD.
This understanding of this evidence of God is what leaves those who do not choose life without excuse on the day of judgement. Calvinism gives them their excuses back by teaching that repobates don't ever understand or clearly see the what can be known of God. Why? Because God's plan of federal headship and the imputation which leads to the Total Depravity of mankind bound them to this. You not only give them an excuse by saying they didn't understand the things of God you add to it by teaching that God's choices lead to their being unable to understand in the first place. This clearly contradicts Romans 1.
Now, back to your verse in Ephesians. We see that the lost are:
1. Futility of the mind
2. Darkened in their understanding
3. Excluded from life with God
Why are they like this?
1. Becauseof the ignorance that is in them.
Gentiles are ignorant of the things of God because they choose to be ignorant. God has made himself known and clearly seen to them as Romans 1 points out. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. A man can be in the middle of a library and still be ignorant. Lost men have just as much access to the knowledge of God's revelation as believers do, but they must choose to learn of it and acknowledge it.
2. Because of the hardness of their heart;
This is speaking about the self hardening of one who lives in rebellion to the clear revelations of God. But, notice that they are not born that way. They only become that way after they have CLEARLY SEEN and have KNOWN the things of God and rebelled against them. That is the point of Romans 1-3, to show that God has made himself known to all mankind and though none of them sought God or were righteous there where some who were saved through faith despite their unrighteousness, which Paul is now revealing as the means to true righteousness as opposed to living the perfect life through the works of the Law. He was obviously never intending to say that faith was not within man's capasity.
3. They, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness.
"Calloused" is another term for being self hardened and notice that they BECAME that way, they weren't born that way, therefore, this cannot be in reference to Total Depravity. It could be the result of the influence of the sin nature upon one's life, but it can't be that they were calloused from birth as TD suggests.
Also, notice that it tells us why they became calloused.
They gave THEMSELVES over to sensuality and impurity. They weren't given over to it by imputation of Adam's sin. They were no doubt influenced by that sin nature, but that does not take away their choice to "give themselves over to it." Some people when confronted with the revelation of God don't give themselves over to sensuality and impurity, but they choose to give themselves over to Him by faith.