It's not watertight - but it's a darn sight better than SS.
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The Pope’s Plans on Organizing Political, Economic, and Religious Activities Worldwid
- Thread starter ReformedBaptist
- Start date
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
wow. just...wow.
This is heresy, plain and simple. Nothing is "better" than the God-breathed Word that He has given to man.
Show me where I said that Tradition was 'better' than Scripture? It's not heresy so much as stating the patently obvious to say that SS simply doesn't work. One of the reasons the Admins here had to remove the Calvinist/Arminian board was because that was displaying the 'fruits' of that doctrine.
I simply quoted you. Anything "better" than SS is heresy. SS gives man absolute truth. The C / A forum was not shut down due to SS, it was shut down due to some not being able to reign in their sin nature. Both sides agree on SS and absolute truth...it is the mechanics how we arrive there we disagree on.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Bob said:Originally Posted by BobRyan
Lori -
First of all - I would not agree that "Catholics are not Christians".
However - your post above needs some correction.
1. Catholic documents themselves will often distinguish between "Catholics" and "Christians" as two different groups. Not sure why they think that is a good idea - but I have seen them do it.
2. I have gone to a number of Catholic-run discussion boards and the most common reaction to arguments that are not favorable to Catholic doctrine is to attack the "sola scriptura" basis for testing doctrine -- and then to quote almost exclusively from ECF's and also from nothing-but-RC sources in a "we are right because we always say we are right" kind of format. (Not saying every member has done that - but it is quite common to find that form of "response" to hard questions on those boards).
Well having been to a number of Catholic boards I will quickly witness to the fact that I have found some very kind and even-handed posters there. But to be honest I have also been dismissed to Hades by some of them for daring to differ with the RCC and for upholding the Bible teaching on Sola Scriptura.
However in saying that -- my argument is not that I was treated worse by some "there" than by some "here" on this board - nor even am I arguing that I have not been subject to harsh treatment even when going to my own denomination's board and expressing a POV that differred from some other member who was sufficiently "exercised" on that point.
The wide range of reactions that you get on various boards says more about "sinful human nature" common to all - than it does about that particular denomination in my view.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
While I agree that "the Pope" does not have the power to "go take over the world" -- I think it is hard to ignore the global scope of the RCC, the fact that the RCC many countries is so dominant that persecution against non-Catholics is common place, the fact that even our own U.S supreme court is now dominated by the Catholic "vote", the fact that RCC history in Europe does reveal a world-domination church-state agenda and the fact that the RCC claims infallability when it comes to things like the Lateran IV command to "exterminate all heretics".
(Now stop and "think" for a minute. Wouldn't that 2000 millennial "apology" been a good time to say "hey you know what - we finally decided that EXTERMINATE all HERETICS is a bad thing so I hereby recind that order.".)
Thus a globalizing Papal agenda today - is totally consistent with its history.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Apostolic succession -
1. There have been more than 12 Popes ruling at the same time
2. There have been 3 "papal lines" established that ALL ruled at the SAME time, each of them with successors.
Thus - There is no such thing as Apostolic succession in the dark ages.
Furthermore - there is no such thing as "Apostles" after the first century since no one living in the 2nd century had SEEN Christ. (See the RULE used in Acts 1).
As for "traditions" of men which include traditions of church leadership established by God at Sinai - with a LINE of "successors" all the way to the time of Christ -- we have
Mark 7
6 And He said to them, ""Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: " THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7 " BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'
8 ""Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.''
9 He was also saying to them, ""You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
10 ""For Moses said, " HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, " HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';
11 but you say, "If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),'
12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.''
1. There have been more than 12 Popes ruling at the same time
2. There have been 3 "papal lines" established that ALL ruled at the SAME time, each of them with successors.
Thus - There is no such thing as Apostolic succession in the dark ages.
Furthermore - there is no such thing as "Apostles" after the first century since no one living in the 2nd century had SEEN Christ. (See the RULE used in Acts 1).
As for "traditions" of men which include traditions of church leadership established by God at Sinai - with a LINE of "successors" all the way to the time of Christ -- we have
Mark 7
6 And He said to them, ""Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: " THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7 " BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'
8 ""Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.''
9 He was also saying to them, ""You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
10 ""For Moses said, " HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, " HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';
11 but you say, "If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),'
12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.''
An anti-pope is one who falsely claimed the title and authority of the papacy while an elected Pope is in office. There are those who have had at least some pretence of being canonically elected. Impostors whose claim to the Papal office was having received an alleged divine revelation appointing them pope are not considered "genuine" anti-popes and does not invalidate genuine Apostolic Succession.
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
Anti-pope. lol Now that is funny...:laugh:
Anti-pope. lol Now that is funny...:laugh:
Why.....google up the claimants for the position and you will find at least 3 others...there maybe more.....then there is the favourite swear word of sedantivicantist...(my spelling is probably off there)....meaning the throne is vacant...
Why.....google up the claimants for the position and you will find at least 3 others...there maybe more.....then there is the favourite swear word of sedantivicantist...(my spelling is probably off there)....meaning the throne is vacant...
That apostolic line is hard to defend. And sometimes it is quite humorous watching the RCC trying to defend the apostolic succession of the papacy. Take this one for instance. It is one of my favorites:
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http://www.usnews.com/usnews/doubleissue/mysteries/pope.htm
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[FONT=ARIAL,][SIZE=-1]Do you know how hard it is for the RCC to cover this one up. It is denial, denial, denial.
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Not this one. It is in the history books; only to be denied, and embarrassingly so, by the RCC.
No chick track here. I don't read them anyway.
Some 'revisionists' history book of no credibility.
If you want more giggles from the 'fruitcake zone' check this site out. It's claims are about as credible.
http://www.iconbusters.com/iconbusters/
The site you gave is simply a Calvinist site or perhaps ultra-Calvinist site. For example it recommends Ian Paisley's webpage. It teaches TULIP. It is against the Catholic Church which is to be expected.
I can give you dozens of historical sources to verify "Pope Joan." However the RCC will deny the existence of such a pope. So where is the revisionist history. It is obviously within the ranks of Catholicism. I find it quite hilarious at the attempts of the RCC to cover up their own gaffes. History tells a tale that disqualifies them as the very church that they are trying to prove that they are. Apostolic succession?? HA! :laugh:
Not just the Vatican that denies the 'Pope Joan' myth, but any serious historian. It's nonsense and it doesn't surprise me you would want to believe it.
I've also heard tales of Jesus having decendents that are alive and well in France. Hear there is lots of proof for that too!
I've also heard tales of Jesus having decendents that are alive and well in France. Hear there is lots of proof for that too!
Stop listening to ridiculous tales for which there is no proof, things that you are evidently making up, and listen to actual history which the RCC has been covering up for ages. I don't have the time to do a thorough search for you. I gave you one link. You, like most Catholics just dismissed it. Here is another link you should take more seriously.
What were people (Catholics) doing in those days?
Read the entire article. Yes, there was a Pope Joan, and good evidence for it as well.
http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1453197&page=1