The President Is Not Above the Law

[Kiffen]

In a few years if President Hillary Clinton is wire tapping people, my fellow Republicans will probably change their tune.

 

[The Galatian]

Apparently, Bush "misspoke" when he claimed that only international calls were being monitored. Some calls by Ameircan citizens within the United States were also tapped without warrents.

This appears to be a crime. Wonder if Bush will do anything about it...

 

[OldRegular]

The New York Times, which first disclosed the existence of the NSA program last week, also cited unnamed sources who said the administration used two other opinions to justify its actions. One was embedded in a public Justice Department brief from 2002 and another was in a 2002 opinion issued by the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review that oversees the secretive court that usually deals with terror-related wiretap requests.

In 2002, that FISA review court upheld the president's warrantless search powers, referencing a 1980 Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals decision. That court held that "the president did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information. ... We take for granted that the president does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the president’s constitutional power," wrote the court.

"The Foreign Intelligence Court of Review, which is the highest court that's looked at these questions, has said that the president has the inherent constitutional authority to use electronic surveillance to collect foreign intelligence and Congress cannot take away that constitutional authority. That's a pretty good argument," Bryan Cunningham, former National Security Council legal adviser, told FOX News.

More at:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,179323,00.html

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Originally posted by The Galatian:
Apparently, Bush "misspoke" when he claimed that only international calls were being monitored. Some calls by Ameircan citizens within the United States were also tapped without warrents.

This appears to be a crime. Wonder if Bush will do anything about it...

The administration has admitted that they are spying on anti-war groups including a group of Quakers down in Florida composed of 60 and 70 somethings (about a dozen) who get together to speak out against the war, as their religion leads them to do.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
The New York Times, which first disclosed the existence of the NSA program last week, also cited unnamed sources who said the administration used two other opinions to justify its actions. One was embedded in a public Justice Department brief from 2002 and another was in a 2002 opinion issued by the Federal Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review that oversees the secretive court that usually deals with terror-related wiretap requests.

In 2002, that FISA review court upheld the president's warrantless search powers, referencing a 1980 Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals decision. That court held that "the president did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information. ... We take for granted that the president does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the president’s constitutional power," wrote the court.

"The Foreign Intelligence Court of Review, which is the highest court that's looked at these questions, has said that the president has the inherent constitutional authority to use electronic surveillance to collect foreign intelligence and Congress cannot take away that constitutional authority. That's a pretty good argument," Bryan Cunningham, former National Security Council legal adviser, told FOX News.

More at:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,179323,00.html

But Bush has also admitted spying on American citizens within the U.S. This includes anti-war groups and probably political opponents.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
But Bush has also admitted spying on American citizens within the U.S. This includes anti-war groups and probably political opponents.

Reference??????????

 

[church mouse guy]

This is all a bunch of garbage. The President has acted legally. The Democrats are willing to say things that they know are false just to play politics. The far right wants to grab power and the far right is willing for the Islamofascists to have lots of Nine Elevens and lots of beheadings if they can destroy the government and ride to power.

The Rev. Mr. Baldwin does not even know what he is talking about but that does not keep him from using his pulpit to make it clear that he is against the military and sympathetic to Islamofascism to the extent that he himself would not lift a finger to act against them abroad or at home. I cannot image why a congregation would want such a dumb dog for a preacher--I really can't. When I hear a dumb dog preaching, I walk out and I don't give any money either.

 

[poncho]

For years, Bush said court orders required for spying (link)

 

[JGrubbs]

Originally posted by church mouse guy:
The Rev. Mr. Baldwin does not even know what he is talking about but that does not keep him from using his pulpit to make it clear that he is against the military and sympathetic to Islamofascism to the extent that he himself would not lift a finger to act against them abroad or at home. I cannot image why a congregation would want such a dumb dog for a preacher--I really can't. When I hear a dumb dog preaching, I walk out and I don't give any money either.

Wow!! The hatred is now spewing from your mouth as lies! Baldwin is NOT "against the military" or "sympathetic to Islamofascism". You know that is the truth, but you continue in your un-Christlike actions of spreading lies and slanderous statements about him. You then go on to call this great man of God a "dumb dog". You simply amaze me with your asinine statements, but to move from simple ignorant statements to lies and bearing false witness against a brother in Christ is an sin!

 

[carpro]

"Monday's (New York) Times carried a major expose on child molesters who use the Internet to lure their adolescent prey into performing sex acts for Webcams. In the course of investigating the story, reporter Kurt Eichenwald broke open a massive network of pedophiles, rescued a young man who had been abused for years, and led the Department of Justice to hundreds of child molesters.

In order to report the story, the Times said it obtained:

-- Copies of online conversations and e-mail messages between minors and the creepy adults;

-- Records of payments to the minors;

-- Membership lists for Webcam sites;

-- Defunct sites stored in online archives;

-- Files retained on a victim's computer over several years;

-- Financial records, credit card processing data and other information;

Would that the Times allowed the Bush administration similar investigative powers for Islamofacists in America !"

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Carpro,

Don't be silly. We should protect the pedophiles and terrorists right to privacy at all costs. Of course, then again, these same people harping on this for political gain, will be harping about how the president didn't do enough to protect us the next time we are attacked at home.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[church mouse guy]

Originally posted by JGrubbs:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by church mouse guy:
The Rev. Mr. Baldwin does not even know what he is talking about but that does not keep him from using his pulpit to make it clear that he is against the military and sympathetic to Islamofascism to the extent that he himself would not lift a finger to act against them abroad or at home. I cannot image why a congregation would want such a dumb dog for a preacher--I really can't. When I hear a dumb dog preaching, I walk out and I don't give any money either.

Wow!! The hatred is now spewing from your mouth as lies! Baldwin is NOT "against the military" or "sympathetic to Islamofascism". You know that is the truth, but you continue in your un-Christlike actions of spreading lies and slanderous statements about him. You then go on to call this great man of God a "dumb dog". You simply amaze me with your asinine statements, but to move from simple ignorant statements to lies and bearing false witness against a brother in Christ is an sin! </font>[/QUOTE]The man is a cheap politician who knows nothing about the law but makes false charges against his own country for his own selfish motives. If he is not a dumb dog, then he is anti-American. A preacher is held to a higher standard. To tell the truth, he is just a dumb dog.

 

[KenH]

To disagree with President Bush does not make a person anti-American, cmg. Actually, to defend President Bush regardless of what he does is anti-American.

 

[JGrubbs]

CMG, do you have anything other than hateful personal attacks to say? I didn't know running for office once makes someone a cheap politician, escpecially someone who was recognized by Ronald Reagan for his conservative leadership. You speak out of hatred and ignorance my brother.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." --Theodore Roosevelt

 

[Daisy]

Originally posted by carpro:
"Monday's (New York) Times carried a major expose on child molesters who use the Internet to lure their adolescent prey into performing sex acts for Webcams. In the course of investigating the story, reporter Kurt Eichenwald broke open a massive network of pedophiles, rescued a young man who had been abused for years, and led the Department of Justice to hundreds of child molesters.

In order to report the story, the Times said it obtained:

-- Copies of online conversations and e-mail messages between minors and the creepy adults;

-- Records of payments to the minors;

-- Membership lists for Webcam sites;

-- Defunct sites stored in online archives;

-- Files retained on a victim's computer over several years;

-- Financial records, credit card processing data and other information;

Would that the Times allowed the Bush administration similar investigative powers for Islamofacists in America !"

Yeah, with probable cause and a court order. There should always be oversight.

 

[church mouse guy]

Originally posted by JGrubbs:
CMG, do you have anything other than hateful personal attacks to say? I didn't know running for office once makes someone a cheap politician, escpecially someone who was recognized by Ronald Reagan for his conservative leadership. You speak out of hatred and ignorance my brother.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." --Theodore Roosevelt

See you don't know what you are talking about because the President has acted legally to defend this country and the Constitution Party has sided with the enemies of this country in time of war with their making a false charge that we abused the rights of Islamofascists and their allies. Frankly, Baldwin makes me sick. He likes to throw manure and then run and say that he is a preacher and that you cannot give the manure that he threw back to him. May God reproach Baldwin to his face.

 

[church mouse guy]

Originally posted by Daisy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carpro:
"Monday's (New York) Times carried a major expose on child molesters who use the Internet to lure their adolescent prey into performing sex acts for Webcams. In the course of investigating the story, reporter Kurt Eichenwald broke open a massive network of pedophiles, rescued a young man who had been abused for years, and led the Department of Justice to hundreds of child molesters.

In order to report the story, the Times said it obtained:

-- Copies of online conversations and e-mail messages between minors and the creepy adults;

-- Records of payments to the minors;

-- Membership lists for Webcam sites;

-- Defunct sites stored in online archives;

-- Files retained on a victim's computer over several years;

-- Financial records, credit card processing data and other information;

Would that the Times allowed the Bush administration similar investigative powers for Islamofacists in America !"

Yeah, with probable cause and a court order. There should always be oversight. </font>[/QUOTE]You Democrats make me sick on this issue, Daisy. Do you really think that FDR did not do black bag jobs on nazi, fascist, and Japanese spies during World War II? As a matter of fact, FDR executed the spies that landed on Long Island and Jacksonville, Florida, and would have executed those that landed in Maine if the war had not ended first and if FDR had not died.

You Democrats demand loyalty from the GOP when you are in charge of wars, but you never support the GOP in the White House during wars. Yet the Democrats have had a far worse record of human rights abuse--look at what Wilson did to Debs.

The President according to the Supreme Court can act to defend the country without the permission of a court along the lines that he has been acting. Any Democrat President would have done the same thing if he had any brains.

 

[Bunyon]

Some folks insist on seeing the activities of the terrorist IN or nation as domestic crimes and not acts of war. That is why they cannot understand the need for surveillance without the intervention of the courts. Civilian courts have never had a role to play in war and should not now.

 

[KenH]

Congress has not issued a declaration of war since World War II. When they do, then we can talk about different rules for surveillance during a time of war. Until then, the feds need a warrant.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by church mouse guy:
1) the President has acted legally to defend this country

2) and the Constitution Party has sided with the enemies of this country

1) That is yet to be determined.

2) That is false.