I don't think there are too many Arminians here on the BB. Bob Ryan is the only one I know who professes to be one. PM him and maybe he will take it up with you.
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The Problem of Regeneration Preceding Faith
- Thread starter zrs6v4
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Another sidestep I see.
Education is critical...an Arminian is someone who rejects (as the Remonstrants did) the five heads of the Canons of Dort.
Ok, and most all the members I know who post here do not reject all five of these points. I have been called a Calvinist for accepting even one point. So what I am I then? I believe in OSAS, am I a Calvinist or a Arminian? I have been called a 1pt & 2pt Calvinist, lol. How about a 3 or 4pt Arminian? Lol. These labels are so stupid.......
I seems you believe since your version says "has been" that this somehow makes your position perfectly correct in some way. Actually, KJV, NKJV, NIV, NASB, RSV, ASV, DBY, WEB and HNV translate this "is" born or "is" begotten of God. The NLT translates this as "has become" a child of God, which may be the best translation of all even though I do not like the translation as a whole. The ESV, HCSB, NET and YLT translate it as "has been" born of God. So since you bolded out the "has been" is this why you believe it would make the non-Cal position disintegrate?
γεγεννηται a perfect passive indicative third person singular verb.
Everyone with at least a 3rd grade education knows a perfect tense verb is a verb form that indicates that an action or circumstance occurred earlier than the time under consideration.
Everyone with at least a 3rd grade education knows a perfect tense verb is a verb form that indicates that an action or circumstance occurred earlier than the time under consideration.
Jacobus Arminius believed 4 of the 5 Heads of doctrine of the Canons of Dordt. He differed only in Unconditional Election and believed election was conditioned on God's foreknowledge that a person would eventually believe. Always remember, Arminius did not write the Remonstrance. That was done by his followers after he was dead.
There are self-proclaimed Arminians who accept OSAS and you're an Arminian who just happens to accept OSAS...which actually would make you a very inconsistent one.
Exactly. As TC noted γεγέννηται is perfect passive indicative and anyone with a basic understanding of ancient Greek would know that makes γεννάω a past action of being born with the results presently occurring (such as believing...and notice it does not say has believed). So you have a past action (being born of God) taking place before the present action of believing.
I bet you still don't get it.
So then these Jews which believed on Jesus and later picked up stones to kill him were born of God?
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed." (John 8)
Lol. No, it would then make me NOT one. Lol.
Oh, that would make Arminius a Calvinist then. Lol.
So the translation whether it be "has been" or "is" doesn't change anything? It's a simple matter of fact statement. Anyone who believes Jesus is the Christ is or has been born of God. Calvinist or not, anyone can agree with it.
Yes, translating it "is" changes it from being "has been" which is right, to "is" which is wrong. It is NOT a present tense verb (is). It is a perfect tense verb (has been).
BrotherJoseph
Well-Known Member
Brother Steaver,
Here is an in depth analysis of 1: John 5:1 in the Greek whereby the authors proves what BrotherRobust has been asserting this verse teaches on this thread-regeneration precedes faith http://www.midamerica.edu/uploads/files/pdf/journal/01-barrettjournal2012.pdf
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You haven't addressed 1John 5:1 yet.
It can't be when one was indwelt with the Holy Spirit for that would imply that one can be indwelt with the Holy Spirit before having faith.
So the hundreds of translators of the KJV, NKJV, NIV, NASB, RSV, ASV, DBY, WEB and the HNV didn't even have a 3rd grade eduction?
Proper exegesis of any passage requires one take in and consider the full counsel of Gods Word. We cannot allow one passage to nullify another. They must come to an interpretation where both are true. John 8:31 clearly shows Jews believing on Jesus and then later picking up stones to kill him. That is what you have to deal with if you want to declare 1John5 a passage that proves Calvinism correct.
Dodging I see...like I said no one is willing to go head on with 1 John 5.
"I love to proclaim these strong old doctrines that are called by nickname Calvinism, but which are truly and verily the revealed truth of God as it is in Christ Jesus." C.H. Spurgeon
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