The Puritians

[Salty]

Who is James McGoldrick?

In Memoriam | James E. McGoldrick (1936-2021) - GPTS

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

Can you provide a link to the 2020 BF & M?

I don't know if there is a BF&M 2020 or not, just making a hypothetical that some SBC Churches will adhere to different years of BF&M.

I've seen one Church adhere to 1925 for some reason or other while other ones adhere to the 2000. Churches will use different BF&M just like they use confessions to show where they stand on certain items.

 

[Salty]

I don't know if there is a BF&M 2020 or not, just making a hypothetical that some SBC Churches will adhere to different years of BF&M.

I've seen one Church adhere to 1925 for some reason or other while other ones adhere to the 2000. Churches will use different BF&M just like they use confessions to show where they stand on certain items.

1) didn't realize you were being hypothetical.

2) When I became a pastor of my current church - they had not had a business meeting
for 10 years!
My point being is that some churches just consider some things unimportant!

 

[5 point Gillinist]

Puritans were overbearingly patriarchal (male dominated).

I'm curious as to why that is an issue. The worldview behind the governing authorities is the issue, not the gender.

There was a general acceptance of slavery/bond servants

Maybe so, but they also ensured the fair and just treatment of their slaves, and as with their style of governance, this was driven by a Christian ethic. George Whitefield (not a puritan per se) was eulogized in a poem by Phillis Wheatley - a man who simultaneously advocated for slavery, yet also fought for the humane treatment of slaves, and for the rights of blacks.

http://www.joelbeeke.org/wp-content...Anti-Slavery-in-Reformed-Puritan-Doctrine.pdf

general stagnation of social standards.

I believe their social standards were again governed by a Christian ethic - we can see what happened in the Massachusetts Bay Colony in the generation following the first generation, and it had nothing to do with biblical social standards, but rather, the discarding of a Christian social standard.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

I don't know if this shows that Puritanism in American was not as strict as we think it was or if it shows that it quickly fell apart but Jonathan Edwards wrote about issues he had with members wanting to take communion who did not even profess faith. Also there were troubles with non professing members demanding their children be baptized. The whole Puritan era didn't really seem to last that long in Europe or America. This is just my own opinion but while it might have worked for helping family groups survive in the 1600's in America for those who were here, by the mid 1700's it just didn't seem to work. It might have worked if Puritan groups had moved beyond the frontier as a group but I don't think they did unless you have other information.

In Europe the Puritan Calvinism was being eroded by the time Owen did a lot of his writing. The Church of England seemed to be a lot like the Catholic church in that they emphasized doing the forms of worship over strict personal standards. I'm not so sure you couldn't argue that Puritanism really doesn't work long term and I say that as a huge fan of their theology. I have noticed in the Reformed Baptist Churches I'm familiar with there is a marked decrease in interest in them in the past 10 years.

The failure of the puritans is a failure that most denominations have suffered. We can see that in the Methodists, and currently with the SBC, and so on. Subsequent generations have less of a passion for God than their forefathers, they allow compromise within their churches, loosen biblical instruction, etc. and it ends in a shipwreck.

 

[DaveXR650]

The failure of the puritans is a failure that most denominations have suffered. We can see that in the Methodists, and currently with the SBC, and so on. Subsequent generations have less of a passion for God than their forefathers, they allow compromise within their churches, loosen biblical instruction, etc. and it ends in a shipwreck.

There are always the common beliefs that make up a church and there is another set of "rules" that are for group cohesion and survival in an environment. All I'm saying is that the Puritan system that worked in 1650 in the New World was not as important in the 1700's when you had stable settlements, towns, a militia, and a chance for prosperous trade with people who were different. So the rules and the social cohesiveness start breaking down. You don't have any real Puritan churches today because of that. Demanding lifestyles are hard to maintain.

 

[Salty]

The failure of the puritans is a failure that most denominations have suffered. We can see that in the Methodists, and currently with the SBC, and so on. Subsequent generations have less of a passion for God than their forefathers, they allow compromise within their churches, loosen biblical instruction, etc. and it ends in a shipwreck.

Too some extent - that is true - With the Methodists - those who want to hold up to Biblical standards have left /will be leaving and forming the Global Methodist Church.

With the SBC - back in 60's and 70's many, many churches left the SBC to become IF.B.
But many more stayed and then the liberals left and then started the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, and the Alliance of Baptists A good book to read is "On a Hill to Die for" by Judge Paul Pressler. Granted, there are still some liberals left in the SBC - but as independent Baptist churches - they have that right.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

He is NOT a Baptist rather a Presbyterian Church Theology professor so why would I credit him with knowing anything about Baptist history?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

He is NOT a Baptist rather a Presbyterian Church Theology professor so why would I credit him with knowing anything about Baptist history?

 

[Walter]

In Memoriam | James E. McGoldrick (1936-2021) - GPTS

I think this was put beautifully: 'He was friendly to scholars, saints, and sinners; and he was faithful to the cause of Christ. He laughed deeply, he listened carefully to people, and he wrote masterfully – especially the story of Christian history and the work of Christ in the church.

 

[Walter]

He is NOT a Baptist rather a Presbyterian Church Theology professor so why would I credit him with knowing anything about Baptist history?

Read the obit closer. 'A graduate of Temple University (BS, MA) and West Virginia University (PhD), Dr. McGoldrick was ordained as Pastor of Pittsgrove Baptist Church in Elmer, New Jersey in 1959, where he remained until 1965. For one year (1965-1966), Dr. McGoldrick pastored Calvary Baptist Church in Pittman, New Jersey. From 1966 to 2021, Dr. McGoldrick taught History and Church History at a variety of institutions: John Brown University in Siloam Springs, Arkansas from 1966 to 1970; West Virginia University in Morgantown, West Virginia from 1970 to 1973; Cedarville University in Cedarville, Ohio from 1973 to 2001; and Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina from 2001 to 2021. Great Lakes Presbytery received Dr. McGoldrick into the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) in 2001

He was a staunch adherent to 'Baptist Secessionism' and taught it for many years until his own research debunked it.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

He is NOT a Baptist rather a Presbyterian Church Theology professor so why would I credit him with knowing anything about Baptist history?

So nice you said it twice. So would a Baptist be disqualified to deal with Presbyterian history? Of course not.

 

[Salty]

Just because you are not in a certain group does not mean that you cannot be knowledgable.

Lately on the TV game show, Jeopardy - there have been several Canadians - who were excellent in US History, geography and ect......

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So nice you said it twice. So would a Baptist be disqualified to deal with Presbyterian history? Of course not.

Duh… Presbyterians are infant baptists. Ask this theology expert if that is biblical. That disqualifies him to make commentary against Baptists

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Just because you are not in a certain group does not mean that you cannot be knowledgable.

Lately on the TV game show, Jeopardy - there have been several Canadians - who were excellent in US History, geography and ect......

Oh the Canadians!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Read the obit closer. 'A graduate of Temple University (BS, MA) and West Virginia University (PhD), Dr. McGoldrick was ordained as Pastor of Pittsgrove Baptist Church in Elmer, New Jersey in 1959, where he remained until 1965. For one year (1965-1966), Dr. McGoldrick pastored Calvary Baptist Church in Pittman, New Jersey. From 1966 to 2021, Dr. McGoldrick taught History and Church History at a variety of institutions: John Brown University in Siloam Springs, Arkansas from 1966 to 1970; West Virginia University in Morgantown, West Virginia from 1970 to 1973; Cedarville University in Cedarville, Ohio from 1973 to 2001; and Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina from 2001 to 2021. Great Lakes Presbytery received Dr. McGoldrick into the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) in 2001

He was a staunch adherent to 'Baptist Secessionism' and taught it for many years until his own research debunked it.

A false Baptist who had no problem slandering Baptists then to turn his back on/ abandoned them to become a Presbyterian. Sounds lIke a career move to me.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I think this was put beautifully: 'He was friendly to scholars, saints, and sinners; and he was faithful to the cause of Christ. He laughed deeply, he listened carefully to people, and he wrote masterfully – especially the story of Christian history and the work of Christ in the church.

He abandoned sound biblical teaching in favor of pedobaptistic sacramental … yea, seems credible to me

 

[RipponRedeaux]

So nice you said it twice. So would a Baptist be disqualified to deal with Presbyterian history? Of course not.

I will repeat again for your benefit EWF. Should a Baptist scholar be disqualified in dealing with Presbyterian history?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I will repeat again for your benefit EWF. Should a Baptist scholar be disqualified in dealing with Presbyterian history?

YES absolutely! ESP his move from Baptist to Presbyterian theology!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Read the obit closer. 'A graduate of Temple University (BS, MA) and West Virginia University (PhD), Dr. McGoldrick was ordained as Pastor of Pittsgrove Baptist Church in Elmer, New Jersey in 1959, where he remained until 1965. For one year (1965-1966), Dr. McGoldrick pastored Calvary Baptist Church in Pittman, New Jersey. From 1966 to 2021, Dr. McGoldrick taught History and Church History at a variety of institutions: John Brown University in Siloam Springs, Arkansas from 1966 to 1970; West Virginia University in Morgantown, West Virginia from 1970 to 1973; Cedarville University in Cedarville, Ohio from 1973 to 2001; and Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Taylors, South Carolina from 2001 to 2021. Great Lakes Presbytery received Dr. McGoldrick into the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) in 2001

He was a staunch adherent to 'Baptist Secessionism' and taught it for many years until his own research debunked it.

… or somebody offered him a better deal… far from a stellar personality!