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Belief is the work of God, His lively-hood so to speak. For that reason, He sent His only begotten son to be the object of man's belief. God did the work, it is now up to us to believe. The work that He did for us requires us to believe in order to have!Belief is clearly a work. Jesus says so in John 6:29!
But it is not considered a merit unto salvation because it is a work of God, not a work of man!!!
This simply is not true! Man believes in a wide variety of things without any provocation or assistance at all from God. Believing is really easy because it requires no work! No effort is expended except mental energy! What is difficult, though, is believing in God, in the Christ even on his name. Such belief flies in the face of all that we mere mortals know and understand.Why would a man ask Jesus to help him in his unbelief if it is not difficult to belief. Belief is the hardest work of them all. In fact, without divine intervention, its impossible for man. Just ask Thomas!
You obviously cannot comprehend what you read.but as you point out, faith is a work of God, not man Hence no amount of exercising "free will" will get one to believe in a way that results in justification of the ungodly
And if I had no belief in God, but retained a great servant's heart? I personally know at least a dozen non-believers who have a servant's heart that Christians should strive to emulate. They simply do not believe in God! Their answer could not be that "it is God or Christ in me". So their servant's heart come from some other source.Let's say one of your non-believing friends noticed in you a great servant's heart and asked you, "Yelsew, why do you have such a servant's heart."
You would not answer, "Because I have a great servant's heart." That is not answering his question at all, it's just restating it.
You might say, "Christ made me a new creation, and has given me a desire to serve others, it's not from me it's Christ in me." That is an answer!
You obviously cannot comprehend what you read.Originally posted by Yelsew:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />but as you point out, faith is a work of God, not man Hence no amount of exercising "free will" will get one to believe in a way that results in justification of the ungodly
What does sanctification have to do with holiness? Are we not commanded by God Himself to "be holy..." Why would he command us to be what, according to you, we are not capable of being?Sanctification depends totally on us indeed! If we cannot make ourselves holy enough to be accepted in God's sight, what makes you think we can bring ourselves the rest of the way without help?
IN YOUR OPINION!What a humanistic belief, that God only needed to give us a push towards holiness in justifying in response to our sovereign choice to believe. Why, given how small a role God plays one wonders why you bohter with him at all!
IN YOUR OPINION!And you also show yourslef a poor answerer of questions. You have still not answered anything put to you. Nor have you refuted what i pointed out; you simply chose to take one part of what I said out of context and try a bait and switch. Nie try, but no dice.
Wrong, I do not argue 'for' or 'against' Calvinist position on anything. If Calvin's thoughts coincide with mine OK! If they don't, OK!The fact remains you have argued for a Calvanist position on effectual call and atonement. You do it inconsistently, but that simply leaves me hopeful that you are learning something here.
Well, I'm glad that you recognize me the way God made me, a free and independent human being with all the attributes that God gave man in the creation. Able to Hear, Speak, See, Smell, and Feel, and respond to stimuli and believe as I see fit. It's too bad you don't recognize that in yourself.I do find it amusing though that the harder you push the more apparant becomes the fact that you glory in your own decision to believe. How humanistic. YOU are the differene! Here I thought Christ was...
I was wondering if anyone else noticed that. I also noticed that the flowery "religious" language has become inversely proportional to anything resembling scriptural support.Originally posted by Latreia:
I do find it amusing though that the harder you push the more apparant becomes the fact that you glory in your own decision to believe. How humanistic. YOU are the differene! Here I thought Christ was...
Now that's a novel argument.Originally posted by Yelsew:
Why would he command us to be what, according to you, we are not capable of being?
Paul, the Preacher talking to the church of believers at Philippi. Yes the Holy Spirit is at work in the believer. But how did the Philippians come to be believers? If you are going to attempt to chastise me using scriptures such as this, you had better take it back a step or two to ask how the Philippians, Colossians, Ephesians, Romans, Thessalonians, Laodaceans, Thyatyrans, asia minor bretheren, and the Hebrews, came to the point that Paul could talk to them in this manner. They are all already sanctified in their belief in Jesus, the Christ!"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Philippians 2:12, 13)
Sanctification is the work of God.
Yes, the Author of Hebrews addressing the Hebrew believers (the already sanctified Hebrews) explaining that they must be submissive to the will of God, for His sake, and His glory."Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in ever good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." (Hebrews 13:20. 21)
Sanctification is the work of God.
Peter addressing believers who are already sanctified, and who already have an inheritance "reserved in Heaven for you". How did they come to belief?"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5)
Sanctification is the work of God.
God did the work, we do the believing. Believing in God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, sanctifies us! Unbelievers are not sanctified! Though Jesus Sacrifice did Justify them the same as us. God did the work of Justifying all men over 2 millenniums ago. That work of Justifying is the vehicle provided whereby we can be sanctified by believing in the Lamb of God. There is no other way to be drawn out (sanctified) of an unbelieving world except by believing. Jesus said so!Yelsew, here is the testimony of the Scriptures. Sanctification is the work of God.
Rufus, Jesus also said "if I be lifted up I will draw all men to me. Jesus is God! Just as with Moses and the Bronze or Brass serpent God told him to raise up before the people who were suffering snake bite and dying.John 6:44. "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 6:65. "And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.''"
What do the above verses mean?
Several problemsThe question is Why do I belief in Jesus? The answer is because He convinced me of who he is and what he did for me and what my response to him must be for me to realize the promise that He gave.
Now, Why do you believe?
Jesus justifies sinful man before the Throne of God by his willing sacrifice in our stead. It was for us that he went to Calvary. His blood, shed in the stead of ours, justifies us. Do you have another definition for Justification?I'm embarrassed for you. I don't think you know the defination of Sanctification much less who is responsible for it. I'm not trying to be mean, but you have got to stop writing this stuff as if you know what your talking about. I think maybe you are confusing Sactification and Justification. (I think even one of your Arminian friends would agree that your thread on Sanctification is way off.)
Gee, sound just like what I said, I just did not carry my explanation past the stage of beginning the Sanctification process through our belief.Sanctification is the process by which believers are made to be more like Christ (to be set apart or made Holy). It's our growth in Him, by the power of the Holy Spirit, after we have been Justified. Its a process that is on going until we are glorfied.
Far fromI think you are just confused, but just in case you really are trying to prove Sanctification is not a work of God let me quote a few verses to contradict you:
Paul the preacher writing to the Congregation of believers living in Greece, who are sanctified by their belief. We all know that sanctification is a process, but sanctification of the individual has a starting point, a point at which the individual is separated from what was and installed in what is, and that is when the individual comes to belief in the Son of God, the Messiah.I Thess. 5:23 "...may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely..."
OK, we all know that man can believe in anything man wants to believe in. But man can only be sanctified by believing in one being, the LORD, the Son of God, The Messiah! So, Yes it is the Lord who sanctifies, and the way that is accomplished in man is persuasion in man of who and what Jesus is. I say persuasion because belief is what changes in man! If, when you come to belief in God, you have cancer, you will still have cancer after you believe, unless God mercifully cures you. There are some testimonies to that effect, however is it certainly not an epidemic, or your churches would not be able to hold the resulting crowds. You can only wish that being born again was physical too.Lev. 22:32 "I am the Lord who Sanctifies..."
This one's too easy: It is the truth that persuades one to believe and belief is sanctification.John 17:17 Jesus is praying, "Sanctify them by the truth."
Jesus, who is the cause of our sanctification and believers in Jesus who are so sanctified are of course the children of God the Father.Heb. 2:11 "For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father..."