The Rapture: How close are we?

[webdog]

When Jesus was born, then died and went to be with the Father for 3 days, and returned during the resurrection, is that considered one coming or two?

*crickets*

 

[go2church]

No it's was called the resurrection, once dead now alive.

The second coming which Jesus spoke of will be one event, not one event in two parts but one event.

Escapist end times theology is of recent, relatively, origin.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

*crickets*

Nope. Just ignoring a foolish question.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

seems that Paul described jesus coming FOR his saints, while John described Jesus coming back WITH his saints!

Yep. That would be two separate events. Good call. :thumbsup:

 

[InTheLight]

Escapist end times theology is of recent, relatively, origin.

And? I don't see how or why the timing of the theology is indicative of whether or not it's true.

Let's see how this might work elsewhere: "Modern Bible translations are of recent, relatively, origin."

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Escapist end times theology is of recent, relatively, origin.

A comment made from the viewpoint of one with head buried in the sand. Needlessly dismissive, without self-investigation. You're parroting what you've been taught, not what the truth is.

 

[saturneptune]

Sorry, C4K, but both are "returns." Coming in the clouds for His church is a return, though not to Earth. He will be seen, but probably only by believers, though if God chooses to let some see Him in His glory as He removes His church, it would assuredly be a sign for the world -- even though they won't believe the witnesses. His Second Coming, when He actually brings judgment on the face of the Earth, is also a return, and everyone will see Him then -- with fear, trepidation and great anguish.

Just in case anyone was wondering, I am a dispensational pre-millenialist, and I expect Christ to come for me and the rest of His church in the next 35-30 years.

I fully agreed with you back when we were young and Hal Lindsey was popular. I still believe it to be a possibility. We had a pastor in the late 70s or early 80s that asked us to show him a verse in the Bible that showed the Rapture would happen at all, and if it did, that it would be before the Tribulation. He meant a verse that clearly states it without opinion attached to it. That is what got me starting to doubt the pre-trib, pre-rapture theory. None of us could find one in including the "in the twinkling of an eye" verses in Thessalonians.

The pre trib rapture does make sense in this manner. If all Christians are removed, the Holy Spirit is not there to restrain evil, an excellent environment for the rise of a physical anti-Christ and false prophet. One verse that has always bothered me, however, is the "days during the Tribulation being shortened for the sake of the elect." What elect if they were Raptured? However, back in favor of the other side, if we are caught up in the air with Christ at His Second Coming, it does seem a little ridiculous to meet Him, make a U turn, and return to earth.

I have never settled this doctrine in my mind, so I read posts like yours very intensely with an open mind. I will add this. I believe the clues to the timing of the Tribulation, Rapture, and Second Coming in Daniel favors a pre-trib rapture. I would like to hear your take on the verse about cutting short time for the sake of the elect.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

When I was younger I had this all figured out. All I know now is that Jesus is coming back. It could be any moment. So I need to be faithfully living for Him and serving him while I am waiting.

I'll leave the details up to Him.

 

[Yeshua1]

When I was younger I had this all figured out. All I know now is that Jesus is coming back. It could be any moment. So I need to be faithfully living for Him and serving him while I am waiting.

I'll leave the details up to Him.

story is told that martin Luther was asked what he planned to do if the Lord jesus was coming back today, and his reply was to good out and til the soil/garden, as that is what he normally did every date at this time...

Think that he was telling us to live and plan for the future, but be ready to go any time!

 

[webdog]

Nope. Just ignoring a foolish question.

Unfounded. Show how. Things like this are usually said when no logical answer can be given.

The argument is made it would be two 'comings' if the pretrib rapture is true. The same consistency needs to be applied to the 'first coming'.

 

[webdog]

I fully agreed with you back when we were young and Hal Lindsey was popular. I still believe it to be a possibility. We had a pastor in the late 70s or early 80s that asked us to show him a verse in the Bible that showed the Rapture would happen at all, and if it did, that it would be before the Tribulation. He meant a verse that clearly states it without opinion attached to it. That is what got me starting to doubt the pre-trib, pre-rapture theory. None of us could find one in including the "in the twinkling of an eye" verses in Thessalonians.

The pre trib rapture does make sense in this manner. If all Christians are removed, the Holy Spirit is not there to restrain evil, an excellent environment for the rise of a physical anti-Christ and false prophet. One verse that has always bothered me, however, is the "days during the Tribulation being shortened for the sake of the elect." What elect if they were Raptured? However, back in favor of the other side, if we are caught up in the air with Christ at His Second Coming, it does seem a little ridiculous to meet Him, make a U turn, and return to earth.

I have never settled this doctrine in my mind, so I read posts like yours very intensely with an open mind. I will add this. I believe the clues to the timing of the Tribulation, Rapture, and Second Coming in Daniel favors a pre-trib rapture. I would like to hear your take on the verse about cutting short time for the sake of the elect.

The elect are Jewish believers, the same way it is used throughout the Bible.

 

[webdog]

Yep. That would be two separate events. Good call. :thumbsup:

...which is still considered the second coming. For thinking my question is so foolish, you prove my point by believing likewise. Wouldn't be so quick to throw the 'head buried in the sand' accusation around...particularly with your screen name :laugh:

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

The argument is made it would be two 'comings' if the pretrib rapture is true. The same consistency needs to be applied to the 'first coming'.

While the argument is invalid in the first case -- Jesus does not come to Earth in the Rapture as He did in His incarnation -- to stretch the point to an illogical conclusion only muddles the discussion, it does not clarify it.

 

[Yeshua1]

While the argument is invalid in the first case -- Jesus does not come to Earth in the Rapture as He did in His incarnation -- to stretch the point to an illogical conclusion only muddles the discussion, it does not clarify it.

The bible states that the "great Hope" for the Church is the second Coming of the Lord Jesus, and that we are to earnestly look for His appearance, so why get excited for antichrist appearing, for if Post trib, that would be the sign for us to know jesus was coming back, correct?

 

[webdog]

While the argument is invalid in the first case -- Jesus does not come to Earth in the Rapture as He did in His incarnation -- to stretch the point to an illogical conclusion only muddles the discussion, it does not clarify it.

Who said anything about the same way?

Here are the facts.
1. Christ stepped foot on earth shortly after birth.
He left the earth.
2. He returned to this earth after 3 days of being in paradise.

One coming.

1. Christ comes for His own in the clouds during the rapture.
He leaves the earth.
2. He returns again after 7 years (3.5 for mid trib position)

One coming.

Those that claim there must be two comings in the pre trib position must also believe in two comings the first time around. The post tribbers are really looking for the third coming.

 

[Yeshua1]

Who said anything about the same way?

Here are the facts.
1. Christ stepped foot on earth shortly after birth.
He left the earth.
2. He returned to this earth after 3 days of being in paradise.

One coming.

1. Christ comes for His own in the clouds during the rapture.
He leaves the earth.
2. He returns again after 7 years (3.5 for mid trib position)

One coming.

Those that claim there must be two comings in the pre trib position must also believe in two comings the first time around. The post tribbers are really looking for the third coming.

his First coming went from birth to death and ascension, so could see second coming being everything from rapture to ruling on earth!

 

[JohnnyReb]

Nobody knows and never will know. Today? Tomorrow? Next week? 1,000 years?

To even speculate is pointless. Maybe God gets a good laugh out of us trying to figure it out though :laugh:

 

[go2church]

A comment made from the viewpoint of one with head buried in the sand. Needlessly dismissive, without self-investigation. You're parroting what you've been taught, not what the truth is.

No exactly the opposite, it because of investigation that I have rejected pretrib nonsense.

 

[prophet]

Job 14:12"So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep."
Any one wanna call Job a Jewish believer? He wasn't. God said , through him that no one will rise until the heavens pass away ...

 

[saturneptune]

Regardless of which scenario anyone believes in, something that struck me as odd, is some saying that only believers would see Christ coming back. Where does that come from? During his Resurrection, do you think the 500+ that saw Him were all believers? Besides that, at some point, every eye will see will see Him.