-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The reason I reject any form of decisional regeneration
- Thread starter Frogman
- Start date
Y
Yelsew
Guest
Now, tell me, how is it possible to lose something that does not physically exist?
Bro. Dallas </font>[/QUOTE]The condition of believing, when that which is believed cannot be proven is called faith. Faith is neither a tangible nor physical thing. It is a conditional circumstance which the spirit of man is stimulated by and through. It is that conditional circumstance by which the spirit of man is "marked" either for (having faith) or against (not having faith) salvation.
Faith is the conditional circumstance in the spirit of man that exists in the absence of proof that what is believed, actually exists.
So, if you have Faith in God! That means you believe that God exists, but that you cannot prove that God exists?
Unbelievers and believers alike have faith! However, the object of faith in both is different and the object of faith is what matters. Faith is required where something is believed to exist, but it's existance is not provable.
Believers, "walk by faith, not by sight"! Co-incidentally, unbelievers also walk by faith and not by sight, the difference is the object of one's faith.
By our fruits we are known. Believers in God produce good fruits of the spirit, whereas unbelievers products "bad" fruits of the spirit.
Since faith is based on belief and belief alone, it is what one believes that determines one's faith. So if you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, your faith is in Jesus the messiah. But if your belief changes and you no longer believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, but rather only a good teacher, and not the one who saves you from your sins. You do still believe in Jesus, but not as your savior. Thus your faith is not in Jesus the messiah but only in Jesus, the good teacher. Having such faith is the same as having faith in Arnold Schwartzeneggar, who may become the Governor of California, but who cannot save himself from anything! You cannot be saved by placing your faith in Arnold!
Y
Yelsew
Guest
The 'Fi' in Sci-Fi stands for FICTION, and fiction means NOT TRUE!, imaginary, inaccurate, a fairytale, and "for entertainment only".
Kinda like Jesus flying through the air on a horse.
or an infinite God sitting on a throne.
faith is based on proof. if proof is not present. faith is based on the "word" or witness of another.
thats me. Im the "got to have the proof in my hand kinda guy". the things I say are based on receiving evidence. knowledge is two parts. receiving the testimony of another. and having that testimony proven to be factual through proof of evidence.
a scientist would say that black holes exist based on their theoretical evidence. they have "faith" in their findings. yet it is theory. and not proven.
God deals in the factual. as his children are holding on to the wisdom (words) and then supplying the believer with the understanding (evidence). thus creating knowledge within the believer.
I dont believe anything concerning God until he proves these things to me.
like the existence of a great red dragon.
Im an "aliens" fan..the ultimate monster..
and God has an imagination too..
seeing as everything is created by him...
even mans imaginations.
Me2
or an infinite God sitting on a throne.
faith is based on proof. if proof is not present. faith is based on the "word" or witness of another.
thats me. Im the "got to have the proof in my hand kinda guy". the things I say are based on receiving evidence. knowledge is two parts. receiving the testimony of another. and having that testimony proven to be factual through proof of evidence.
a scientist would say that black holes exist based on their theoretical evidence. they have "faith" in their findings. yet it is theory. and not proven.
God deals in the factual. as his children are holding on to the wisdom (words) and then supplying the believer with the understanding (evidence). thus creating knowledge within the believer.
I dont believe anything concerning God until he proves these things to me.
like the existence of a great red dragon.
Im an "aliens" fan..the ultimate monster..
and God has an imagination too..
seeing as everything is created by him...
even mans imaginations.
Me2
Y
Yelsew
Guest
Not by joining! Jesus is pure and Holy, lost souls are impure and unholy. You yourself have clearly argued against such happening. So don't expect me to believe that such can happen when you don't!
Don't use this verse out of its context if you are trying to prove the point that you are. Jesus who became a man as any of us are man, is what is called, "the quickening spirit". All mankind are spirits who are made in the image of God. Therefore, it is Jesus, who is God, who quickens us, but he does not do that by the joining of His spirit to our soul (spirit).
Yes, but actually more than two. One is the Spirit of GOD, and the other spirit, made in the image of God, is MAN!
But in 1 John 4, there is yet another spirit spoken of, and that is the spirit of Anti-Christ. The spirit of MAN can confess either the spirit of Christ or the spirit of anti-Christ. "By their fruits you shall know them!"
Know ye not that man's spirit is the life of the flesh? Destroy the spirit (which cannot be done) and you destroy the flesh. It is not the destruction of man's spirit that God is after, it is the restoration of man's spirit to it's rightful condition of purity and holiness that God does through the Blood of his Only Begotten Son, Jesus.
If you have never been pierced through and through with the word of God, you would not understand what Hebrew 4:12 means, and I have no words that can explain, for it is a most revealing experience, that leaves one in complete awe of the word of God. And, yes, it was through the Holy Bible that the experience of being pierced through to the soul came to me.
Taken from a discussion about fasting between John the baptist's disciples and Jesus, and you make it into something else.
Jesus is the New order, where the Pharisees represent the old order. The old order cannot contain the new and retain its integrity. The new will cause the old to burst or break or tear.
What you fail to recognise is that Salvation is not a group effort, it is an exclusive individual relationship between each individual human and God the maker of all mankind. Of the 3000 saved at Pentacost, not one of them was saved because of the rest. They were all saved individually and uniquely.
Y
Yelsew
Guest
So are you saying that Jesus was not fully man?
So are you saying that Jesus was not fully man? </font>[/QUOTE]I am saying he did not possess the nature you and I possessed at our birth, if he did, he could not have been withou spot or blemish and could not have been the lamb of God.
Which is worse to suggest that he was not fully man or to deny he was fully God in order to focus on the man.
He is the Daysman, the kinsman redeemer, the mediator, He is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD, HE has not the nature, nor the blood of man. His birth is/was a supernatural act through the Holy Spirit.
Please, don't pretend you can assume my belief. I know He was fully man, but I know He was also fully God.
he completely fulfilled the following words:
He is both the sacrifice and the altar, the High Priest and the atonement.
Bro. Dallas
[Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things [are] naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.
the word of God is a "He"
dont even let me burst your bubble by mentioning
"the word made (our) flesh"
Me2
Heb 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things [are] naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.
the word of God is a "He"
dont even let me burst your bubble by mentioning
"the word made (our) flesh"
Me2
Y
Yelsew
Guest
Since "He" made our flesh, it seems that he knows all about us, and that he did not make something that is "totally depraved", "unable to respond", "unable to believe". You see, Me2, What God made in man is the image of God. What you declare about man must then be true of God, for God made us in His image. The point is, with all that God gave man in making him, man is a sinner, not totally depraved, but a sinner none the less.
Yelsew,
The image of God in which man is made in is the trinity of man, body, soul and spirit.
Man is a created being, the angels are created being. As created beings all these have the capability of sinning, they are finite. God is infinite. Man is not in the image of God such that man has an ability to act or react as God would to anything.
God is Sovereign, man is dust.
Bro. Dallas
The image of God in which man is made in is the trinity of man, body, soul and spirit.
Man is a created being, the angels are created being. As created beings all these have the capability of sinning, they are finite. God is infinite. Man is not in the image of God such that man has an ability to act or react as God would to anything.
God is Sovereign, man is dust.
Bro. Dallas
I was wondering if someone could explain the following statement to me, sometimes I am slow in understanding.
I have heard it stated, very explicity that a certain individual is in need of our prayers that he/she would be able to get to a place where that God could save him/her. What is meant by this statement? What place is it that the elect of God must 'get to' before God can save them? Is this not the reason Christ stood as the lamb slain before the foundation of the world, because we could not 'get to this place.'
Doesn't this kind of statement attempt to place the lost in the place of Christ such that they must tread the winepress of the wrath of God and is this not declared by Scripture to be error?
Doesn't this kind of statement generate and perpetuate confusion.
Someone tell me why a statement can be made by any one person such that the individual in question is known to have a love for Christ, but they have not been able to 'get to' the place that God can save them, and this statement is considered to be supported by scripture?
Does it pertain to a contrite and humble spirit? Well then, does God not humble the lost? Is not the hearing of God of the prayers of the humble and contrite speak of those who are his children who have wondered away by pride and are now admonished to return in humble repentance? And is this repentance still worked by the Grace of God and only because of His Goodness, or is it a repentance that is merited?
Paul said if it is by grace then is it no more by works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
So what does it mean when we hear the statement that a person has not gotten to a place where God can save them? Is this kind of statement the reason they cannot tell us of the Grace worked in their hearts.
Bro. Dallas
I have heard it stated, very explicity that a certain individual is in need of our prayers that he/she would be able to get to a place where that God could save him/her. What is meant by this statement? What place is it that the elect of God must 'get to' before God can save them? Is this not the reason Christ stood as the lamb slain before the foundation of the world, because we could not 'get to this place.'
Doesn't this kind of statement attempt to place the lost in the place of Christ such that they must tread the winepress of the wrath of God and is this not declared by Scripture to be error?
Doesn't this kind of statement generate and perpetuate confusion.
Someone tell me why a statement can be made by any one person such that the individual in question is known to have a love for Christ, but they have not been able to 'get to' the place that God can save them, and this statement is considered to be supported by scripture?
Does it pertain to a contrite and humble spirit? Well then, does God not humble the lost? Is not the hearing of God of the prayers of the humble and contrite speak of those who are his children who have wondered away by pride and are now admonished to return in humble repentance? And is this repentance still worked by the Grace of God and only because of His Goodness, or is it a repentance that is merited?
Paul said if it is by grace then is it no more by works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
So what does it mean when we hear the statement that a person has not gotten to a place where God can save them? Is this kind of statement the reason they cannot tell us of the Grace worked in their hearts.
Bro. Dallas
Frogman,
the new believer if noticed first by you is searching for God. A spirit has been imparted into them. they have been convicted of sin because of the combination of their lifestyle choices and the new spirit within them. they "feel" guilty of sinning against God. they are searching to find God to receive the cure, or answer to their distress.
and there you are..."jesus Christ" in Frogman.
you introduce Gods Propitiation, his plans involving of Gods son, Jesus dying for them and that their new ability to pray to God their Father via their christ for the forgiveness of their "sins". they have no choice to agree or disagree. the guilt will remain and convict them to follow your instructions.
and now they find themselves sitting on Gods "mercy seat"..sealed by the Holy spirit.
many things are not comprehended by us gentiles when they are imparted with the spirit of God. Just as the jews were taught from a child. the gentiles intelligence must "catch up" with the symbolism which God used to teach the Jews. their history and their interraction with the living God.
when Jesus was nailed to the cross. the new believer was also was "nailed" to the cross.
after Jesus death and resurrection. He took his blood and the new believers soul/spirit and placed both on the mercy seat. or another name for this is "the alter" or "the right hand (throne) of God".
we are not aware of these activities beforehand.
yet we soon find ourselves in Gods loving arms.
On HIS "mercy seat"
on the mercy seat is where we also attain the "mind of christ".
we are in the holy of holies. and God is on his throne. in a temple made without hands.
but "your" spirit is on the mercy seat or the "throne".
but within you is the Spirit of Jesus?
who's spirit is "within" you?
who has become the sacrifice, the alter, the temple, the kingdom. the power, the fruit, the gifts, the knowledge.
You have.
But the spirit of Christ "within" you... "Is".
now we proceed from inside the temple from the mercy seat to outside the temple. the problem here is when we reenter to return to our throne or mercy seat to commune with God, we wash ourselves by the scriptures and the Holy spirit. some get confused at this point and do not see themselves as christ within them (me2) and begin to imagine themselves not worthy to reenter into the temple and onto the mercy seat.
they loose sight of who they are. and the power they hold.
eventually they create a different temple and a different mercy seat and a different God to worship because within them. they feel unworthy because of Satan whispering into their ear..."the soul that sins shall die". they stop asking for forgiveness and begin to stop forgiving others..
a VICIOUS CIRCLE OF ILLUSION.
yet that is the will of God also.
the seperation of the "wheat and the tares".
or the seperation of the "sheep and goats".
we are understanding within this age that there are believers who remain humble and obedient and are those chosen to be sons of God.
Some become or realize that they are Gods sons in this age. yet All Human beings will become Sons eventually in ages to come..that by our offerings of mercy towards others, we are actually offering mercy to future brothers and sisters....
now the last question is regarding comprehending and acknowledgeing different titles of Jesus. Ive mentioned that babies and Children "in christ" are to be taught and then tested of their comprehension and faith" as all christians are proceede through sanctification exactly the same.
nobodies taught differently.
babies and children approach Jesus as their christ.
after the trials of faith and revelation of Jesus conquering death and that the believer has also been raised from the dead.
then they can declare that Jesus is Lord. and not until. Major, Major difference.
remember the statements "lord,lord have we not"
these believers havent comprehended,understood or received revelations concerning themselves being raised from the dead.
their trying to "enter heaven another way". although saved.
their trying to change Gods methods of Sanctification..
everyones treated the same...
baby
child
young man
father
all discribed in heb 6 and 1 john.
I would say to focus on the titles within the letters concerning jesus. notice the various ways christ is introduced. Lord, or Christ.
"Lord" is referencing to adult comprehension and "Christ" is speaking towards babies and children.
Me2
the new believer if noticed first by you is searching for God. A spirit has been imparted into them. they have been convicted of sin because of the combination of their lifestyle choices and the new spirit within them. they "feel" guilty of sinning against God. they are searching to find God to receive the cure, or answer to their distress.
and there you are..."jesus Christ" in Frogman.
you introduce Gods Propitiation, his plans involving of Gods son, Jesus dying for them and that their new ability to pray to God their Father via their christ for the forgiveness of their "sins". they have no choice to agree or disagree. the guilt will remain and convict them to follow your instructions.
and now they find themselves sitting on Gods "mercy seat"..sealed by the Holy spirit.
many things are not comprehended by us gentiles when they are imparted with the spirit of God. Just as the jews were taught from a child. the gentiles intelligence must "catch up" with the symbolism which God used to teach the Jews. their history and their interraction with the living God.
when Jesus was nailed to the cross. the new believer was also was "nailed" to the cross.
after Jesus death and resurrection. He took his blood and the new believers soul/spirit and placed both on the mercy seat. or another name for this is "the alter" or "the right hand (throne) of God".
we are not aware of these activities beforehand.
yet we soon find ourselves in Gods loving arms.
On HIS "mercy seat"
on the mercy seat is where we also attain the "mind of christ".
we are in the holy of holies. and God is on his throne. in a temple made without hands.
but "your" spirit is on the mercy seat or the "throne".
but within you is the Spirit of Jesus?
who's spirit is "within" you?
who has become the sacrifice, the alter, the temple, the kingdom. the power, the fruit, the gifts, the knowledge.
You have.
But the spirit of Christ "within" you... "Is".
now we proceed from inside the temple from the mercy seat to outside the temple. the problem here is when we reenter to return to our throne or mercy seat to commune with God, we wash ourselves by the scriptures and the Holy spirit. some get confused at this point and do not see themselves as christ within them (me2) and begin to imagine themselves not worthy to reenter into the temple and onto the mercy seat.
they loose sight of who they are. and the power they hold.
eventually they create a different temple and a different mercy seat and a different God to worship because within them. they feel unworthy because of Satan whispering into their ear..."the soul that sins shall die". they stop asking for forgiveness and begin to stop forgiving others..
a VICIOUS CIRCLE OF ILLUSION.
yet that is the will of God also.
the seperation of the "wheat and the tares".
or the seperation of the "sheep and goats".
we are understanding within this age that there are believers who remain humble and obedient and are those chosen to be sons of God.
Some become or realize that they are Gods sons in this age. yet All Human beings will become Sons eventually in ages to come..that by our offerings of mercy towards others, we are actually offering mercy to future brothers and sisters....
now the last question is regarding comprehending and acknowledgeing different titles of Jesus. Ive mentioned that babies and Children "in christ" are to be taught and then tested of their comprehension and faith" as all christians are proceede through sanctification exactly the same.
nobodies taught differently.
babies and children approach Jesus as their christ.
after the trials of faith and revelation of Jesus conquering death and that the believer has also been raised from the dead.
then they can declare that Jesus is Lord. and not until. Major, Major difference.
remember the statements "lord,lord have we not"
these believers havent comprehended,understood or received revelations concerning themselves being raised from the dead.
their trying to "enter heaven another way". although saved.
their trying to change Gods methods of Sanctification..
everyones treated the same...
baby
child
young man
father
all discribed in heb 6 and 1 john.
I would say to focus on the titles within the letters concerning jesus. notice the various ways christ is introduced. Lord, or Christ.
"Lord" is referencing to adult comprehension and "Christ" is speaking towards babies and children.
Me2
Me2,
I reread this after your posts on 'Age of Accountability.' Now I see why I failed to understand what you were saying. I don't feel so bad now.
What do you mean who has become the kingdom, etc and then saying 'you are' meaning me.?
I had a flag come up when I first read this at the paragraph that speaks of the convicted sinner seeking and then something about Jesus--then--there is frogman. I don't believe God shall give his glory unto any man.
All that you describe the believer as is reserved unto the firstborn.
Bro. Dallas
I think I was happier when I didn't understand what you were saying.
I reread this after your posts on 'Age of Accountability.' Now I see why I failed to understand what you were saying. I don't feel so bad now.
What do you mean who has become the kingdom, etc and then saying 'you are' meaning me.?
I had a flag come up when I first read this at the paragraph that speaks of the convicted sinner seeking and then something about Jesus--then--there is frogman. I don't believe God shall give his glory unto any man.
All that you describe the believer as is reserved unto the firstborn.
Bro. Dallas
I think I was happier when I didn't understand what you were saying.
The parable of the sower is a good start! The "one shall be taken the other left behind" another. "The one who is plowing but takes his hand from the plow and turns back", is another. These by the way are in the Gospels, they are the words of Jesus.Originally posted by Yelsew:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Frogman:
where do the scriptures say this?
Bro. Dallas
I'll make a list of the scriptures that warn against "falling away", but that will take some time that I don't have today. </font>[/QUOTE]Have you made this list yet?
Bro. Dallas
Y
Yelsew
Guest
The parable of the sower is a good start! The "one shall be taken the other left behind" another. "The one who is plowing but takes his hand from the plow and turns back", is another. These by the way are in the Gospels, they are the words of Jesus.Originally posted by Frogman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Yelsew:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Frogman:
where do the scriptures say this?
Bro. Dallas
I'll make a list of the scriptures that warn against "falling away", but that will take some time that I don't have today. </font>[/QUOTE]Have you made this list yet?
Bro. Dallas
Y
Yelsew
Guest
The holidays are a tough time to devote much effort in research so if you permit, may I delay until after the holidays?