The Reformers - The Doctrine of Drawing - And Serious Error?

[JD731]

JD. You're all over the place. Your views on "all" are that of strict Calvinism, your knowledge of BJU and fundamentalism leads me to wonder if you really are one, and your continued refusal to answer as to who else teaches this stuff makes me wonder about your seriousness. For all I know you might be some kid sitting in the dorm at BJU and pulling everyone's leg!

You had me fooled there for a while, Dave. You started out good but when you could not make a biblical case for your ideas nor could you defend what you teach you reverted back to standard Calvinism, whish is to accuse others who are making a biblical case of being hypes and ignorant and maybe a little crazy and on and on. It is called projection, Dave.

Here is what has been proven to you. John 6:44 is not about you but tomorrow you will be insisting that it is. Your doctrine of draw is a made up doctrine as it pertains to the people today. I have given you 4 pages on this thread to prove me wrong and you have failed. It is sad Dave but the darkness is great.

 

[DaveXR650]

Still waiting for an example of someone else beside you who teaches this. Otherwise you have given 4 pages of your own opinion, which is fine, just don't expect me to give it any more authority than it being - your own opinion.

 

[JD731]

Still waiting for an example of someone else beside you who teaches this. Otherwise you have given 4 pages of your own opinion, which is fine, just don't expect me to give it any more authority than it being - your own opinion.

The Holy Ghost taught it to me through the words he preserved in the scriptures after they were spoken to men or through men.

Here is the proof of this.

1Co 1:4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

Now Dave, I know you well enough now to understand it is not enough for you that Paul and I said this. It will not be true until you read Owen and Spurgeon saying it.

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

The testimony of God was he was speaking to Jews only in Jn 6 and did not intend it to mean you also in that synagogue in Capernaum.
"I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Dave, if I had been there that day, I could not have heard those words because they would not allow a gentile that had not become a proselyte in there. The word "multitudes" is a word that is used when he wants us to understand that he has broadened his audience past the Jews. Here is a for instance to ponder.

Mt 13:1 The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

It was not just a multitude, but a great multitude. It is here that he began to speak mysteries in parables. You need to ponder why he changed audiences and locations and techniques all because of what happened earlier in the day. (hint: it was because those rulers of the Jews decided to put him to death).

Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But back to 1 Cor 2;

Read these following verses and realize that if you are having trouble with understanding the mysteries of God, it may be a red light for you. You do not seem to be able to transition with God in the scriptures and you rely heavily on the wisdom of certain men for your doctrinal instructions. It differs greatly from mine. This means we both could be in trouble, but definitely one of us is.

6 ¶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. (the mysteries of this age are the deep things)
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

The princes of this world, the Jewish rulers, would not have crucified Jesus if they had known this mystery (the mystery of Christ, the church).

I did not make up anything in this paragraph above. I quoted it faithfully as it was given to me.

I think your approach to the scriptures is so wrong, Dave, and I have prayed for you to receive light from above.

 

[DaveXR650]

Now Dave, I know you well enough now to understand it is not enough for you that Paul and I said this. It will not be true until you read Owen and Spurgeon saying it.

You do realize don't you that you have knocked everyone from all the Reformers, to Owen and Spurgeon, to John R. Rice and Bob Jones University. No. It is not enough that you said this and that you think Paul backs you up.

The Holy Ghost taught it to me through the words he preserved in the scriptures after they were spoken to men or through men.

As for this. Be very careful. There is nothing wrong with you reading scripture and then by prayer and meditation asking God for wisdom for the things that come up in your own life. But understand this. You have no right or authority to tell me that the Holy Spirit has given you some special message that I have to accept. So yes, it brings up huge red flags when you claim this and I know you are going against a huge portion of Christian teaching.

You seem like a nice guy so please. I implore you, get under some good preaching and buy a few commentaries. You are right now a poster boy for the Catholic charge that we are doing our own private interpretations of scripture and will some day end up with as many churches as there are people. I hope Cathode doesn't see this.

 

[JD731]

POINT # 1 - You do realize don't you that you have knocked everyone from all the Reformers, to Owen and Spurgeon, to John R. Rice and Bob Jones University. No. It is not enough that you said this and that you think Paul backs you up.

POINT # 2 - As for this. Be very careful. There is nothing wrong with you reading scripture and then by prayer and meditation asking God for wisdom for the things that come up in your own life. But understand this. You have no right or authority to tell me that the Holy Spirit has given you some special message that I have to accept. So yes, it brings up huge red flags when you claim this and I know you are going against a huge portion of Christian teaching.

POINT #3 - You seem like a nice guy so please. I implore you, get under some good preaching and buy a few commentaries. You are right now a poster boy for the Catholic charge that we are doing our own private interpretations of scripture and will some day end up with as many churches as there are people. I hope Cathode doesn't see this.

Point #1 - LOL, The Reformers and Owen, and BJU, to a large degree, are Calvinists and Calvinists define salvation, man, God in his dealing with sinners, the overall purpose of God for his creation and a host of other doctrines much differently than fundamentalist Christians. I have told you I am a Fundamentalist Baptist and none of them believes what you believe about the scriptures. As for John R Rice, you are the one who claimed he has Calvinist leanings. I do not know about that but I do know he was a poor teacher of what the scriptures calls the "mysteries of God."
1Co 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

Point #2 - You will need to quote me saying I have been given a special message for you. I have quoted verses in nearly every post as the foundation of my thoughts. If you thought I had quoted them out of context or in error, you should have already pointed it out and corrected me. I have only asked you to believe the words you read. Words such as he gave his apostles and disciples here;

Mt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Where have we heard that before? After his resurrection he says this to the same men.

Mr 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Point #3 - Projection, Dave. The Reformed is the engine I believe that drives this new English Bible translation philosophy and we have hundreds of denominations and sects because of it. You greatly err in much of your Christian philosophy. The people who believe what I believe generally believe we have the authority of pure words of God. Most of you guys have more Bible translations than you do high profile writers of commentaries, many of whom have not been called into the ministry and equipped by God to instruct his church, which is his own body. Shame on you for promoting those guys.