Featured The Reprobate Calvinist

I don't see it as a guy thing. The positions force an either or. You can't be pro Calvinism and neutral non Calvinism at the same time. The two oppose each other.

Btw. You still did not answer my question about what all the OT saints did not receive before the cross.

 

In what respect? Here is what I posted:

There are indeed several other texts that I might have quoted, but on reflection, I'm quite happy with these.

 

That is a question you put to Robustheologian, not to me.

 

Perhaps it might be helpful if you explained what your problem is with 'Total Depravity,' and exactly what you own version of Depravity is.

Isaiah 1:5-6. 'Why should you be stricken again? You will revolt more and more. The whole head is sick, and the whole heart faints. From the sole of the foot even to the head, there is no soundness in it, but wounds and bruises and putrifying sores; they have not been closed or bound up nor soothed with ointment.'

Jeremiah 13:23. 'Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.'

Jeremiah 17:9. 'The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. Who can know it?'

 

Oh that's right! lol. Now where did he go?

 

You present Isaiah 1:5-6 as proof all men are Totally depraved?? Isaiah 1 is speaking of the nation Israel, which the Lord hath "nourished and brought up" and they as a nation has rebelled against Him. Yet there has always been a remnant of true believers which pleases the LORD and whom the LORD preserves.

Jeremiah? It is the LORD who changes the heart through faith.

 

Indeed. But if Isaiah's words apply to Israelites, how much more to the Gentile nations? How would you argue partial depravity from that verse?

Indeed again. 'Unless the LORD of hosts had left to us a very small remnant we would have become like Sodom, we would have been made like Gomorrah' (v.9). So tell me about this remnant: looking at this verse, did the remnant preserve itself by its righteousness, or did the Lord preserve it by His mercy? You might want to consider Titus 3:3-8 and Romans 5:6 in connection with it.

 

If you choose to use Isaiah 1:5-6 for a case for total depravity for all men then ALL of Israel was depraved, every single person. Of course not, Isaiah 1:5-6 is speaking about Israel as a nation. Isaiah even states there is a remnant of true believers preserved by God's mercy.

No one preserves themselves, none is righteous apart from the imputed righteousness of God. Abraham believed God and it was imputed unto him for righteousness. Ro4:3, Gal3:6, Jas2:23. Notice it does not say "God made Abraham believe and it was imputed unto him for righteousness". Calvinism must reword most of the scriptures in order to support it's doctrines.

 

'Run to and fro through the streets of Jerusalem; see now and know; and seek in her open places if you can find a man, if there is anyone who executes judgement, who seeks the truth, and I will pardon her. Though they say, "As the LORD lives," surely they speak falsely' (Jer. 5:1-2).

I am glad that you agree with me that the remnant is always of God's mercy and not by anything in the remnant itself.

There is nothing between us in these verses. Abraham did indeed believe God and it was indeed imputed to him for righteousness.

Eph. 2:4-5. 'But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)..........'

I am aware of those who believe that 'dead' does not really mean dead, but instead means 'not very well,' but you obviously can't be one of those because you do not believe in 'rewording the Scriptures.' So how do we get around the fact that 'us' obviously means Paul and the rest of us, and that would include Abraham. As I have said before, Abraham did not come to God saying, "What would you like me to do?" He couldn't. He was dead in trespasses and sins. No, no! 'The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia' (Acts 7:2) even when he and his dad were worshipping idols in Ur (Joshua 24:2). God chose him (Eph. 1:4), drew him (Jer. 31:3), gave him new birth (1 Peter 1:3) and called him (1 Sam. 3:4-5) to follow him, and guided him (Psalm 73:24). That is why Abraham is called the father of believers. 'Thy people shall be willing in the day of they power' (Psalm 110:3, KJV). God's call to His people is irresistible, and they, like Abraham, believe it and obey it.

It's all of Him and none of us. Praise His glorious Name!

 

Lets see, here is the question: What part of man was NOT ruined by the fall and thus is sufficiently holy and just and righteous to come to God on its own merits?

And the answer: None!

So why is TC repeating the question?

Here is a new question, if the Fall resulted in the "Total Spiritual Inability" of every person, then why did Jesus speak in parables or why did God harden the hearts of Jews? No answer will be forthcoming, just obfuscation.

 

I'm sorry for the delay. I'm trying to complete a 40-page paper for my Scripture and Doctrine class (coincidentally) by Friday so I'm kind of tied up.

Though there is a more comprehensive answer to this question I'll give you the short answer....the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. As I said earlier, I do not deny that OT saints were regenerated. (Regeneration is simply God granting the ability to hear, understand, believe, obey and even enter the kingdom of God) How else could OT saint come to trust in God? But the primary difference between OT saints and NT saints is that not only are the NT saints regenerated by the Holy Spirit but they are then indwelt by it. We must not confuse the regeneration by the Spirit with the indwelling of the Spirit. Yes they are connected but they are not the same thing.

 

Well that sure is a different twist indeed. No brother, regeneration is the joining of God to man as one new creation, Christ in you! Without it, no man can enter heaven....

 

Hmmmm....why would He have to obscure His teaching from those who could not hear it anyways......and harden the hearts of those who had a dead heart anyways.....

 

The joining of God to man?!? What's your scripture support?

 

He spoke in parables to hide the truth --not bring it to light.

He hardens the hearts of some Jews just as He does Gentiles --due to His good pleasure. He hardens those whom he wants to harden. Do you have a problem with that? I will warn you --it's God's Word you have issues with if you disagree.

You style yourself as some kind of prophet with that lind of line which you bandy about continually.

I have given you a scriptural response --with clarity.

So an answer came forth from my keystrokes --what kind of prophet does that make you?

 

I notice that TC already gave Van an answer to Van in post 133. I posted after the fact.