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The righteousness of God
- Thread starter Van
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Romans 10:3 (NASB)
For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
Not knowing has the same meaning as "being ignorant." The gospel had not been presented or presented in a way they understood. So they were willing but there "works" based effort did not produce the righteousness of God. A person can be willing to submit to the requirements of the gospel, but if they are unaware of those requirements, they will not be able to submit.
And all this to say, without our faith in the gospel, we will not achieve the righteousness of God through faith in Christ.
For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
Not knowing has the same meaning as "being ignorant." The gospel had not been presented or presented in a way they understood. So they were willing but there "works" based effort did not produce the righteousness of God. A person can be willing to submit to the requirements of the gospel, but if they are unaware of those requirements, they will not be able to submit.
And all this to say, without our faith in the gospel, we will not achieve the righteousness of God through faith in Christ.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
or, as Jesus says in Matthew 13:19, "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside"
or, as Paul says in 2 Cor. 4:4, "whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them"
And Paul again, 2 Thess. 2:10-12, "and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason God will send them a powerful delusion so that they believe the lie, in order that judgment may come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness."
All these are among the soil #1 type of Matthew 13.
But folks, note SBG did not admit that God credits our faith (or not) as righteousness. Thus some people come to faith, and thus total spiritual inability of all the fallen is fiction.
Tsalagi
Member
I'm glad we agree that the letter is addressed to believers begotten by the word of God, not the lost. It does seem you have shifted your ground from seeing "righteousness of God" as the lost appropriating the redemptive work of Christ at salvation ("Putting aside filthiness sounds like repentance, and receiving with humility the gospel of Christ sounds like believing.") to now claiming it refers to works evidencing salvation ("walking the talk"). I'm confused about your view here.
Sorry, but we do not agree, it is addressed, in my opinion, to professing Christians, which may or may not be born anew Christians. Recall the second and third soils of Matthew 13, you can believe superficially or be unwilling to forsake worldly treasure, and therefore be a professing Christian, but not an actual Christian.
Yes, I was not clear, my bad. Consider two cases, a professing Christian (actually a tare) should not think he or she is saved if unwilling to turn to God and trust fully in Christ. On the other hand, a professing Christian (actually born anew) should be able to examine themselves and determine they are "of the faith." Do they have "live" faith or "dead" faith?
Interesting that both you and I disagree with him, as i am a Cal, and you are not!It doubt that it would be "Systematic" though
Tsalagi
Member
Sorry, but I can't find your false professors referenced anywhere in the context, and they certainly cannot be included as "begotten by God with the word of truth." Nor can I stretch my imagination to believe that James refers to his audience of first generation Jewish Christians as "a kind of firstfruits" (1:18) when the presence of such "tares" would render it an impure and contaminated offering. There is only one issue for the lost, and it isn't what they are willing to forsake or any other aspect of behavior addressed in chapter 1; it is Christ.
With respect, saving faith in Christ is simply not the topic in James; if waking up false professors to their lost condition were the goal, a clear and vivid presentation of the gospel of Christ would be central. If you have found such a passage (like Acts 16:31, Romans 1:16, Romans 10:9-10, etc.) I would welcome the opportunity to see it and improve my understanding.
James is not presenting Christ as the object of saving faith (worthy as that topic is) but rather focuses on the begetting, implanted word of God as the object of living faith and obedience for us AFTER salvation, like Paul does in 2 Tim 3:16-17. See James 2:1 as one example. Your interpretation inevitably forces the conclusion that James 2:24 teaches salvation by works.
Which Luther wrongly saw James as teaching!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
The Bible nowhere teaches justification by faith alone. Because repentance is necessary as well for the sinner to be justified with God
Repent of what?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Sins against the Lord.
Do not see Paul stating that, as his message was turn to and believe in Lord Jesus and get saved!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
What do you think he means when he speaks of worldly sorrow and godly sorrow
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Check the esv on luke 24.47
I think the professing but not actual Christ is found throughout the chapter. And as I said, not all that profess to be "begotten by God with the word of truth" are wheat. BTW, what verse and chapter and version does this quote come from?
James 1:21
Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.
Here for example is a contextual verse that indicates some of James audience might need to "receive" the word implanted. Thus perhaps unsaved. Certainly James and others of the audience were born anew.
And with respect, nothing I present supports salvation by works.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
What about
New King James Version Luke 18:13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’
Is this not repentance from sins
James 1:12 (NASB)
Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
Clearly, some in James audience may not have been "approved." For they have not received the "crown of life."
Tsalagi
Member
If, as you believe, receiving the word is a synonym for salvation, and receiving first requires "putting aside all filthiness" etc. (you recall that the action of the aorist participle precedes the action of the main verb) then works are made part of salvation in this verse. I see no way around that conclusion.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
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