The righteousness of God

[Yeshua1]

You and the OP appear to apply this "literal" hermeneutic pretty selectively. Is James' letter then only relevant to Israelites who are scattered (1:1) and not to those still in the land? Is it addressed only to men (pick your masculine noun or pronoun out of any verse in the chapter) and not women? Shall we ignore what Jesus said to His disciples in John 14 because they are all Israelites and hand-picked disciples, and we aren't? This sort of inconsistency is unpersuasive to say the least.

On the other hand, if you agree that James has value for Gentile believers, then what is the point of niggling about who is a brother? Please identify any truth communicated by James that doesn't apply to me because I am not an Israelite.

Maybe he thinks was just written to Jewish believers in Yeshua?

 

[Van]

The righteousness of God is Hie own innate moral perfection, which He imputes to those are now saved in the Lord Jesus!

Can you not read!!! Romans 3:22 Do you really think God's own innate moral perfection is by means of faith in Christ? Absurdity after absurdity is all they have.

 

[Yeshua1]

Can you not read!!! Romans 3:22 Do you really think God's own innate moral perfection is by means of faith in Christ? Absurdity after absurdity is all they have.

Think that God imputes to us the same moral perfection of Jesus. do you?

 

[Van]

Maybe he thinks was just written to Jewish believers in Yeshua?

Maybe Y1 thinks false doctrine should be presented with falsehoods.

 

[Van]

Think that God imputes to us the same moral perfection of Jesus. do you?

I believe the truths of scripture, but your views seem to be copy and waste smokescreed from Calvinism.

 

[Yeshua1]

I believe the truths of scripture, but your views seem to be copy and waste smokescreed from Calvinism.

No, from the Bible itself!

 

[Van]

No, from the Bible itself!

Right, from the book of 2 Cal. 2:4 Which reads "born anew believers have the same moral perfection as Jesus."

Folks, they just make it up to prevent actual discussion of biblical doctrine.

 

[Tsalagi]

Maybe he thinks was just written to Jewish believers in Yeshua?

No offense, but I would appreciate hearing from posters themselves rather than third parties speculating about what they might think or putting words in their mouths.

 

[Van]

Romans 3:22, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

This verse strongly suggests that the righteousness of God is being used metonymically for God's redemptive work through faith in Jesus Christ.

And this verse strongly suggests that God's innate righteousness cannot be in view, because His righteousness is not "through faith in Christ."

 

[Tsalagi]

Romans 3:22, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

This verse strongly suggests that the righteousness of God is being used metonymically for God's redemptive work through faith in Jesus Christ.

And this verse strongly suggests that God's innate righteousness cannot be in view, because His righteousness is not "through faith in Christ."

Not to pick nits, but you seem to have skipped over Romans 3:20 - "no one will be *justified*." Your metonymy idea doesn't logically or theologically connect to God's "redemptive work." The imputation of divine righteousness to believers by faith in Christ is justification (Rom 4:24-25), not redemption. Redemption is a different aspect of the work of Christ as applied at salvation; i.e., the payment of the penalty for sin (Eph 1:7).

 

[percho]

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. James 1:1.18

And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. Rev 14:3,4

And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. Rev 7:4-8

 

[kyredneck]

Is James' letter then only relevant to Israelites who are scattered (1:1) and not to those still in the land?

James was an apostle to the circumcision, his audience were Jews.

8 (for he that wrought for Peter unto the apostleship of the circumcision wrought for me also unto the Gentiles);
9 and when they perceived the grace that was given unto me, James and Cephas and John, they who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the Gentiles, and they unto the circumcision; Gal 2

 

[Aaron]

Metonymy is a figure of speech where something is not called by its own name or description, but by something closely related. For example, the White house for a Presidential administration, or Hollywood for the film industry.

It is possible that the "righteousness of God" does not actually refer to God's perfection, His own righteousness, but rather is used metonymically for God's redemptive work through Christ.

Thus to be seeking the righteousness of God through (by means of) faith in Christ actually refers to seeking redemption in Christ where we are made perfect, holy and blameless, thus having the righteousness (perfection) of God.

Lets see if this possibility works for the verses that use the phrase.

Romans 1:17, For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”

The "it" at the beginning of the verse refers to the gospel of Christ. Faith to faith is understood in various ways, but the simplest idea is from beginning to end, thus God's revelation is from beginning to end about redemption in Christ Jesus. Thus, God's redemptive work by means of Christ is revealed in the gospel, from beginning to end.

Romans 3:5, "But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? The God who inflicts wrath is not unrighteous, is He? (I am speaking in human terms.)"

The Greek word translated "demonstrates" means highlights, makes more clear or in other words demonstrates the need for the redemptive work of God through Christ.

Romans 3:21, But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

Here we see that the redemptive work of God through Christ is apart from the work of the Law which brings knowledge of our sin. And this redemptive work is witnessed in the Old Testament scriptures.

Romans 3:22, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

This verse strongly suggests that the righteousness of God is being used metonymically for God's redemptive work through faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 10:3, For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

Here we see the lost have the opportunity to subject themselves to the redemptive work of God by means of putting their faith in Christ Jesus. The cause of the failure in this case is ignorance of the gospel, rather than a lack of spiritual ability.

2 Corinthians 5:21, He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Lets sidestep the mistaken view that Jesus became sin, rather on the cross the Lamb of God became a sin offering. What is key to the topic is that we obtain the righteousness of God when God puts us "in Him" where we are made perfect, holy and blameless, i.e. made righteous.

Can't believe this is a featured post.

 

[Van]

Not to pick nits, but you seem to have skipped over Romans 3:20 - "no one will be *justified*." Your metonymy idea doesn't logically or theologically connect to God's "redemptive work." The imputation of divine righteousness to believers by faith in Christ is justification (Rom 4:24-25), not redemption. Redemption is a different aspect of the work of Christ as applied at salvation; i.e., the payment of the penalty for sin (Eph 1:7).

Thanks for your on topic post.

I am not sure what the * was meant to convey, but all that is said is no flesh is justified by the works of the Law. Thus the works of the Law does not provide the "redemptive work of God." So from my side of the street, the observation is non-germane.

I think the metonymy idea does connect with "righteousness of God" referring to God's redemptive work that provides righteousness of those of His choosing.

Lets look at your citation:
Romans 4:24-25 (NASB)
but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,
He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

Apparently, you are conflating God crediting our faith to us as righteousness, with declaring us righteous. If so, that view is bogus. When God credits our faith (not us) as righteousness, we are accepted as "those who believe in Him" or more accurately in my opinion those who believe in the One who raised our Lord Jesus.

Next, I fear (reading between the lines) your view is that "because of our justification" says individuals were justified when God raised Jesus from the dead. Christ's death as our sin offering provides the propitiation or means of salvation for all humankind.

His resurrection reveals that His sacrifice is accepted by God, thus if Christ has not risen, our faith is in vain.

Thus, when God credits our faith as righteousness, He places us into Christ spiritually, were we are "made" not declared righteous. (Romans 5:19)

Redemption refers to the act of God when He transfers us from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of His Beloved Son where we are made righteous. Colossians 1:13-14

Redemption is more than the payment of the ransom, it refers to the "releasing effected by the ransom payment." Thus Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, but only when God transfers an individual into Christ, where they undergo the washing of regeneration, is the release accomplished.

I know this is all different from what you have been taught, but every word is supported by scripture.

 

[Van]

Can't believe this is a featured post.

Can't believe this sort of off topic derision of biblical discussion has not been deleted by the author.

 

[Tsalagi]

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures. James 1:1.18

And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. Rev 14:3,4

And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. Rev 7:4-8

1 Corinthians 15:20
But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

1 Corinthians 16:15
Now I urge you, brethren (you know the household of Stephanas, that they were the first fruits of Achaia, and that they have devoted themselves for ministry to the saints)

 

[percho]

1 Corinthians 15:20
But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

1 Corinthians 16:15
Now I urge you, brethren (you know the household of Stephanas, that they were the first fruits of Achaia, and that they have devoted themselves for ministry to the saints)

???

Rom 15:5 and the assembly at their house; salute Epaenetus, my beloved, who is first-fruit of Achaia to Christ.
1 Cor 16:15 And I entreat you, brethren, ye have known the household of Stephanas, that it is the first-fruit of Achaia, and to the ministration to the saints they did set themselves --

=

Rom 8:23 And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, (In Achaia) we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body

_________________________________________________________________________________________

1 Cor 15:20 And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead -- the first-fruit of those sleeping he became,

1 Cor 15:23 and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ (out of the dead), afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
James 1:18 having counselled, He did beget us with a word of truth, for our being a certain first-fruit (? out of the dead) of His creatures.
Matt 19:28 And Jesus said to them, 'Verily I say to you, that ye who did follow me in the regeneration, when the Son of Man may sit upon a throne of his glory, shall sit -- ye also -- upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel;

 

[Tsalagi]

???

Rom 15:5 and the assembly at their house; salute Epaenetus, my beloved, who is first-fruit of Achaia to Christ.
1 Cor 16:15 And I entreat you, brethren, ye have known the household of Stephanas, that it is the first-fruit of Achaia, and to the ministration to the saints they did set themselves --

=

Rom 8:23 And not only so, but also we ourselves, having the first-fruit of the Spirit, (In Achaia) we also ourselves in ourselves do groan, adoption expecting -- the redemption of our body

_________________________________________________________________________________________

1 Cor 15:20 And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead -- the first-fruit of those sleeping he became,

1 Cor 15:23 and each in his proper order, a first-fruit Christ (out of the dead), afterwards those who are the Christ's, in his presence,
James 1:18 having counselled, He did beget us with a word of truth, for our being a certain first-fruit (? out of the dead) of His creatures.
Matt 19:28 And Jesus said to them, 'Verily I say to you, that ye who did follow me in the regeneration, when the Son of Man may sit upon a throne of his glory, shall sit -- ye also -- upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel;

Help me out here, what's your point?

 

[Tsalagi]

Thanks for your on topic post.

I am not sure what the * was meant to convey, but all that is said is no flesh is justified by the works of the Law. Thus the works of the Law does not provide the "redemptive work of God." So from my side of the street, the observation is non-germane.

I think the metonymy idea does connect with "righteousness of God" referring to God's redemptive work that provides righteousness of those of His choosing.

Lets look at your citation:
Romans 4:24-25 (NASB)
but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,
He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

Apparently, you are conflating God crediting our faith to us as righteousness, with declaring us righteous. If so, that view is bogus. When God credits our faith (not us) as righteousness, we are accepted as "those who believe in Him" or more accurately in my opinion those who believe in the One who raised our Lord Jesus.

Next, I fear (reading between the lines) your view is that "because of our justification" says individuals were justified when God raised Jesus from the dead. Christ's death as our sin offering provides the propitiation or means of salvation for all humankind.

His resurrection reveals that His sacrifice is accepted by God, thus if Christ has not risen, our faith is in vain.

Thus, when God credits our faith as righteousness, He places us into Christ spiritually, were we are "made" not declared righteous. (Romans 5:19)

Redemption refers to the act of God when He transfers us from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of His Beloved Son where we are made righteous. Colossians 1:13-14

Redemption is more than the payment of the ransom, it refers to the "releasing effected by the ransom payment." Thus Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, but only when God transfers an individual into Christ, where they undergo the washing of regeneration, is the release accomplished.

I know this is all different from what you have been taught, but every word is supported by scripture.

a. It is a mistake to conflate the crediting of God's righteousness to believers (justification) with redemption (payment of the penalty for sin). The asterisks in my previous post were intended as a reminder that justification is Paul's topic in Romans 3 and 4, not "God's redemptive work," to use your undocumented phrase.

b. Similarly, it is a mistake to claim that God's crediting faith as righteousness is a synonym for salvation ("when God credits our faith as righteousness He places us into Christ spiritually"). Genesis 15:6 is by no stretch of imagination a record of Abraham's salvation. Abraham, the given example of believing God and that faith being credited as righteousness, clearly did not receive this credit for believing the gospel of Christ; righteousness was credited to him specifically for believing the promise that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars. This was many long years after his salvation which is manifest back in Genesis chapter 12. It is evident that (as in James 1) Paul exhorts believers to living faith resulting in the ongoing appropriation of God's righteousness, following Abraham's worthy example (cf. Hebrews 11).

c. Neither Colossians 1 nor any other passage of scripture teaches that redemption is transfer from one kingdom to another, or our "being made righteous," or "washing of regeneration" as your post suggests. Any standard reference work on soteriology will elaborate the biblical vocabulary and theological distinctions between these important concepts.

d. Claiming to know what I have been taught is presumptuous, and the ad hominem introduction of second person singular pronouns is a sure way to motivate my exit from a discussion. I suggest each one of us should be interested in improving our understanding of scripture through "speaking the truth to one another in love" and "searching the Scriptures to see if these things are so," not petty disputes, wrangling about words, and the kind of biting and devouring I see in many threads after reading this board for a few weeks. May I respectfully request that we refrain from "reading between the lines" and instead interact with what is actually said and the scriptures cited in support of those understandings with a spirit of brotherly love, not jaundiced speculation about others' views and motivations. By God's grace I have learned a fair amount from the Word of God through personal study in the decades subsequent to my seminary education; I would hope that is true of us all. To be humble is to be teachable (Matt 11:29).

 

[Van]

a. It is a mistake to conflate the crediting of God's righteousness to believers (justification) with redemption (payment of the penalty for sin). The asterisks in my previous post were intended as a reminder that justification is Paul's topic in Romans 3 and 4, not "God's redemptive work," to use your undocumented phrase.

b. Similarly, it is a mistake to claim that God's crediting faith as righteousness is a synonym for salvation ("when God credits our faith as righteousness He places us into Christ spiritually"). Genesis 15:6 is by no stretch of imagination a record of Abraham's salvation. Abraham, the given example of believing God and that faith being credited as righteousness, clearly did not receive this credit for believing the gospel of Christ; righteousness was credited to him specifically for believing the promise that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars. This was many long years after his salvation which is manifest back in Genesis chapter 12. It is evident that (as in James 1) Paul exhorts believers to living faith resulting in the ongoing appropriation of God's righteousness, following Abraham's worthy example (cf. Hebrews 11).

c. Neither Colossians 1 nor any other passage of scripture teaches that redemption is transfer from one kingdom to another, or our "being made righteous," or "washing of regeneration" as your post suggests. Any standard reference work on soteriology will elaborate the biblical vocabulary and theological distinctions between these important concepts.

d. Claiming to know what I have been taught is presumptuous, and the ad hominem introduction of second person singular pronouns is a sure way to motivate my exit from a discussion. I suggest each one of us should be interested in improving our understanding of scripture through "speaking the truth to one another in love" and "searching the Scriptures to see if these things are so," not petty disputes, wrangling about words, and the kind of biting and devouring I see in many threads after reading this board for a few weeks. May I respectfully request that we refrain from "reading between the lines" and instead interact with what is actually said and the scriptures cited in support of those understandings with a spirit of brotherly love, not jaundiced speculation about others' views and motivations. By God's grace I have learned a fair amount from the Word of God through personal study in the decades subsequent to my seminary education; I would hope that is true of us all. To be humble is to be teachable (Matt 11:29).

As I said, the biblical view is very different from the view you have been taught.

a. I did not "conflate" God crediting our faith as righteousness with individuals being transferred from the realm of darkness into the kingdom of His Beloved Son, Colossians 1:13. Two separate actions of God, the second one being accomplished on the basis of the first one.

b. Next, I did not say the crediting is a synonym for salvation. Two separate actions of God. Genesis 15:6 supports my view, Abraham believed God and "it" (his faith) was credited to him as righteousness. Exactly my view. Abraham's salvation is not in view. Hebrews 11:2 Abraham gained "approval" (chosen for salvation) by faith. He had to wait, like all Old Covenant Saints to be made perfect. No one said Abraham believed the gospel. And nowhere in Genesis 12 does scripture suggest Abraham's salvation was "manifested" because God made promises to him.

c. Colossians 1:13-14:

For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.​

Thus your claim being transferred into Christ does not equate with redemption is unbiblical.

d. I did not claim to know what you have been taught, I said it was different from the biblical view presented in this thread. You have confirmed this fact because you have not said you agree with the view. To suggest I have treated you inappropriately is to change the subject from the biblical view to me. That dog will not hunt .