THE SABBATH

[Sai]

Paul.

The writer said that he was not an eye witness to the resurrected Christ, therefore is not Paul.


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[Alofa Atu]

The writer said that he was not an eye witness to the resurrected Christ, therefore is not Paul. ...

What??? Citation please.

The entire writing of Hebrews has Paul written all over it. It has his "flavour" so to speak, his "mannerisms". It is even "traditionally" attributed to him in the majority.

For instance in Hebrews 10:34 he speaks of being in prison. In Hebrews 13:23 he speaks of "Timothy" being set "at liberty" which parallels Philemon 1:1. He prolifically uses the OT throughout the whole thing, and Paul was an expert in the OT., and while doing so, even uses some of the same phraseology when citing., see "And Again" (Romans 15:12; 1 Corinthians 3:20; Hebrews 1:5,6, 2:13, 10:30, &c)

 

[Alofa Atu]

... the rest of the 603. ...

T'ain't no such thang in Scripture (it's Talmudic Rabbinism (and multiple at that with differing numberings, and listings, and orderings and reasons), not scripture).

Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

Ok. I know how some like ordered lists, so hear goes:

[1.] To begin with, there is not a single place in all the TaNaKh, neither the portion thereof, the Torah (Gen-Deut) where God, Moses, Joshua, or any person of heaven above, or on this earth below, state on biblical record that there are exactly '613' 'mitzvot'. For the New Testament minded (Matt-Rev), the same applies also. Again, absent. Jesus, as a final example (for the New Testament minded), did not once enumerate the 'mitzvot' of the Torah for us in such fashion, to '613' or any other such number.

[2.] The enumeration of '613' is a Rabbincal, yea even after a Talmudical, fashioning or calculation or enumeration. No one has to take my word for this, it is said as much on the very site so kindly provided to us (it has been provided so many times, I lost count):

"... Below is a list of the 613 mitzvot (commandments). It is based primarily on the list compiled by Rambam in the Mishneh Torah, but I have consulted other sources as well. As I said in the page on halakhah, Rambam's list is probably the most widely accepted list, but it is not the only one. The order is my own, as are the explanations of how some rules are derived from some biblical passages. ..." - Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)​

As a side note:

The RaMBaM (whom I have read on numerous occasions, with others, such as RaMBaN, Pirke, etc) is actually, Ra(bbi) M(oses) Ba(ni) M(aimon), aka Maimonides, of the 12th cent Morocco & Egypt (during the Almoravid (Muslim) empire, and died under the Ayyubid sultanate) - Link

[3.] RaMBaM's listing isn't the only one. There are other listings, by other Rabbis, all several thousand years removed from Moses or Joshua, and the website provided demonstrates the accuracy of this point.

[4.] RaMBaM's order of listing isn't the only one. There are other orderings, by other Rabbis and persons non-Rabbi (scholars, etc), and again, the very website provided, demonstrates this by stating it out as matters of fact, and in personal ordered listing preferred instead to RaMBaM's (example 2 orders at least on the face of it).

[5.] RaMBaM's explanation for the listing and ordering thereof is not the only one. There are explanations, just as there are other listings and orderings by other Rabbis, etc. (generally, not exclusively, following after RaMBaM, (thus post 12th cent), possible just more easily accessible)

[6.] The '613' number is for some calculated on Gematraic principles, with differing reasons or starting points by differing Rabbis, and for this reason, some disagree that it should be said number, for instance:

"... I disagree there are 613 Mitzvot because the explanation for the number is based on gematria, however the gematria of the Torah is not Standard ( Long preview of 'The Genesis Wheel: & other hermeneutical essays'. ). Instead of the letters Shin and Tav having the value of 300 and 400, they are valued at 3 and 4, and using this most secret gematria the number of Mitzvot would be 217 (31 × 7). However 613 is discovered with this gematria in the opening verses of Genesis so it is still a very significant gematria number.

We first get the idea of 613 mitzvot from Rabbi Simlai:

From Makkot 24a:

"דרש רבי שמלאי שש מאות ושלש עשרה מצות נאמרו לו למשה שלש מאות וששים וחמש לאוין כמנין ימות החמה ומאתים וארבעים ושמונה עשה כנגד איבריו של אדם אמר רב המנונא מאי קרא (דברים לג, ד) תורה צוה לנו משה מורשה תורה בגימטריא שית מאה וחד סרי הוי אנכי ולא יהיה לך מפי הגבורה שמענום

§ Rabbi Simlai taught: There were 613 mitzvot stated to Moses in the Torah, consisting of 365 prohibitions corresponding to the number of days in the solar year, and 248 positive mitzvot corresponding to the number of a person’s limbs. Rav Hamnuna said: What is the verse that alludes to this? It is written: “Moses commanded to us the Torah, an inheritance of the congregation of Jacob” (Deuteronomy 34:4). The word Torah, in terms of its numerical value [gimatriyya], is 611, the number of mitzvot that were received and taught by Moses our teacher. In addition, there are two mitzvot: “I am the Lord your God” and: “You shall have no other gods” (Exodus 20:2, 3), the first two of the Ten Commandments, that we heard from the mouth of the Almighty, for a total of 613."[1]

However the word תורה is valued at 215; Tav:4 + Vav:6 + Resh:200 + Heh:5 = 215. So if we add the two for the first two commandments the people heard at Sinai: 215 + 2 = 217.

Regarding the number of צִיצִית which is supposed to equal the number of Mitzvot:

Rashi "וזכרתם את כל מצות ה'. שֶׁמִּנְיַן גִּימַטְרִיָּא שֶׁל צִיצִית שֵׁשׁ מֵאוֹת, וּשְׁמוֹנָה חוּטִין וַחֲמִשָּׁה קְשָׁרִים הֲרֵי תרי"ג (תנחומא): You will remember all of Adonoy’s commandments. As the numerical value of צִיצִית is 600, and the eight threads and five knots equal 613."[2]

צִיצִית = 204

plus 8 threads and 5 knots = 217.

You can check the sums on this gematria calculator which uses the correct gematria of the Torah; Shematria

Vilna Gaon in Orot Hagra also disagreed that 613 was the correct number, saying;

It definitely cannot be said that only 613, and no more, come under the category of mitzvot. For if so, there are only three mitzvot from Berei**** until Bo, and many portions of the Torah contain no mitzvot. That is not plausible… The mitzvot are thus multitudinous beyond enumeration… ..." - Are there really 613 Mitzvot? : Gematria​

 

[Alofa Atu]

... the rest of the 603. ...

T'ain't no such thang in Scripture (it's Talmudic Rabbinism (and multiple at that with differing numberings, and listings, and orderings and reasons), not scripture).

Continued ...

[7.] Moses specifically said by inspiration of God, that what God spoke and wrote at Mt. Sinai with His own voice and finger from Heaven were "the ten commandments". God came down upon Mt. Sinai in awesome majesty, with the whole mountain covered in the fire of the presence of the Holy Angels of God, so that none but those whom God called up were able to come near.

Exo_34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Deu_4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deu_10:4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.​

In each place the Hebrew word "[1697] dabar" is used, as the Ten Commandments are not merely laws or commands, but individual promises of God each that He would perform in those who would walk in His covenant. More on that later as needful.

[8.] The "ten commandments" that God spake in Person to all the people without the mediator Moses, were a complete Law, nothing further being added unto them, except later as to be written in a scroll/book through a mediator (Moses):

Deu_5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.​

[9.] The "ten commandments" were written by God's own finger originally on sapphire stone and which second set was placed into the "pattern" Ark of the Covenant in the earthly tabernacle (Exodus 25:16,21).

[10.] The other precepts, statutes, laws, commands, ordinances, etc were all given by God through the mediator Moses, to be written by Moses' hand, and placed not inside of the Ark, but to be placed in the side of the Ark:

Deu_31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.​

So, while important, God makes distinction, by several means. The many other things which God gave fall under the umbrella of the Ten Commandments:

Psa_119:96 I have seen an end of all perfection: but thy commandment is exceeding broad.
​

and as such '613' probably wouldn't even come close to the depth of God's Ten Commandments, which are the expansion of His perfect character of Love, which itself is expressed in the greatest (Deuteronomy 6:5) and second greatest commandments (Leviticus 19:17-18) (both of whose contexts are the Ten Commandments, see Deut. 5, etc).

[11.] The '613' enumeration only considers material within the texts of the Torah (Gen-Deut), and not any other material from the Nevi'im or Ketuvim, as if God somehow stopped talking and giving commands through men, priests or prophets or kings, see Isaiah 8:20 (Law and Testimony)

[12.] Even from a basic search of scripture, the Torah itself makes differences between words:

Gen 26:5 KJB Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Gen 26:5 KJB Str. BecauseH6118 thatH834 AbrahamH85 obeyedH8085 my voice,H6963 and keptH8104 my charge,H4931 my commandments,H4687 my statutes,H2708 and my laws.H8451

Gen 26:5 HOT עקב אשׁר־שׁמע אברהם בקלי וישׁמר משׁמרתי מצותי חקותי ותורתי׃

Gen 26:5 HOT Str. עקבH6118 אשׁרH834 שׁמעH8085 אברהםH85 בקליH6963 וישׁמרH8104 משׁמרתיH4931 מצותיH4687 חקותיH2708 ותורתי׃H8451 (apologies for how this posts, not much can be done about that, I used highligher to mark the beginning and ending, so while the sentence reads left to right, each individual word correctly reads right to left)

Gen 26:5 HOT Translit. ëqev ásher-shäma av'rähäm B'qoliy waYish'mor mish'mar'Tiy mitz'wotay chuQôtay w'tôrotäy​

Notice the distinction made between H4687 (mitzvot) and H8451 (torah), which is again found in Exodus 16:28,

Exo 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?​

This should suffice for now.

 

[Dave G]

No requirement in NT to keep the Sabbath. But according of how Jesus behave and observe the Sabbath Day, why when those who call themselves "Christians" which I assume means "the followers of Christ" do not observe the Sabbath Day as Jesus Christ did?

Because He fulfilled the Law, abolished the old and instituted a new ( Hebrews 8 ).

Also, did you miss this in your reading, sir?
" And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" ( Mark 2:27 ).

 

[Alofa Atu]

Because He fulfilled the Law, abolished the old and instituted a new ( Hebrews 8 )....

Hebrews 8 doesn't say anything about a new Law. It speaks about a New Covenant, as spoken of in Jeremiah 31:31-34, where God would write His Law ("my laws") in the heart. Same Law of Ten Commandments, differing location, differing mediation, differing High priest. differing blood. The context of Jeremiah and the "my laws" always refer to the Ten Commandments in Jeremiah (see Isaiah 51:7; Jeremiah 6:19, 9:13, 16:11, 26:4, 44:10; Ezekiel 22:26; &c), as they do elsewhere, even with Moses; see Exodus 16:4 (the context of which includes the sabbath commandment, the 7th day, the sabbath of the LORD).

 

[Alofa Atu]

...Also, did you miss this in your reading, sir?
" And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" ( Mark 2:27 ).

In koine Greek it reads "the man", "ton anthrwpon",

Mar 2:27 και ελεγεν αυτοις το σαββατον δια τον ανθρωπον εγενετο ουχ ο ανθρωπος δια το σαββατον​

which is a direct reference to the account in Genesis, and the only "the man" - Adam, see so called LXX, Genesis 1:27:

Gen 1:27 καὶ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον, κατ᾿ εἰκόνα θεοῦ ἐποίησεν αὐτόν, ἄρσεν καὶ θῆλυ ἐποίησεν αὐτούς.​

Thus the sabbath of the LORD was indeed "made" (at Creation) "for" (purpose) "the man" Adam, and all in Him (mankind), not merely for Adam the first, but also the Last (1 Corinthians 15:45; Colossians 1:16, "for"), and all in Him (Christ Jesus). For it was truly with Jesus Christ that the eternal/everlasting/new covenant was made even in eternity past, and ratified at Calvary by His shed blood, and ratified by the Father upon Christ's ascension as written in the scriptures.

 

[Hobie]

sabbath was never given to the gentile Church!

This is interesting...

“There was and is a command to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will however be readily said, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all its duties, privileges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found: Not in the New Testament – absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week.” Dr. E. T. Hiscox, author of the ‘Baptist Manual’.

 

[Alcott]

Romans 14:5-6
Colossians 2:16

 

[Alofa Atu]

Romans 14:5-6
Colossians 2:16

Powerful scriptures which both prove (in context) the perpetuity of the 7th day the sabbath and for Christians to keep holy.

View the entire playlist:

https://archive.org/download/colossians-2vs-16/Colossians 2vs16.pptx

 

[Sai]

Sabbath is for the weak. Get a job!


Joy unspeakable full of glory

 

[Alex2165]

To Dave:

You wrote:
"Because He fulfilled the Law, abolished the old and instituted a new ( Hebrews 8 )."

Jesus did not instituted a New Covenant at the time of His crucifixion, He instituted a New Covenant long before that. Actually, Spiritual Commandments have been introduced in the Law of Moses from the very beginning (10 Commandments for example), and given the most urgent importance and first priority above all physical Laws and Rituals.

Proof of that can seen in the words of GOD, "I DESIRE MERCY AND NOT SACRIFICE" :

(1Samuel 15.22) (Psalm 50.13-14.23, 51.16-17) (Proverbs 21.3.27) (Ecclesiastes 5.1) (Hosea 6.6) (Isaiah 1.11-20) (Jeremiah 6.20) (Amos 5.21-24) (Micah 6.6-8) (Zechariah 7.2-4.9-10) (Matthew 9.13, 12.7, 23.23) (Mark 12.32-33)

Isaiah 61.1
1.The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me (Me), because the Lord has anointed me (Me) to bring *Good News (Gospel) to the afflicted, He has sent me (Me) to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to captives and freedom to prisoners (Isaiah 42.6-7, 49.8-9, 61.1) (Luke 4.18).

Proclamation of Evangeline - Gospel (Good News) (Isaiah 42.1-4.21, 51.5, 61.1-3) (Matthew 12.18-20) (Luke 4.17-19)

Establishment of the New Covenant [New Testament] - (Isaiah 54.10, 61.1) (Jeremiah 31.31-34, 32.37-41) (Ezekiel 16.59-60.62) (Malachi 3.1) (Hebrews 4.6, 8.6-13)

See also: Matthew 20.28, Mark 14.24, Luke 22.20, 2Corinthians 3.6, Hebrews 8.8.10.13.

So the New Covenant (New Testament) was established during the time of the Old Covenant (Old Testament) about which many prophets prophesied.


You wrote:
" abolished the old."

Yes, Jesus fulfill the Law, but He did not abolished the Old Testament. I read Hebrews 8, and I do not see where in the Hebrews 8 the Old Testament has been abolished.

Everyone who disregard and neglect the Old Testament always refer to Hebrews 8 and to some couple other places where Paul (if we assume that he is the author of the Gospel to Hebrews) explaining the difference between Old and the New Testaments.

Entire Gospel of Paul to Hebrews generally relates to Hebrews, and because it was some disagreements among first Christian Jews in the early mostly Jewish Christian congregation concerning certain Laws of Moses, like circumcision, food, and some other Ordinances of the Law, Paul decided to issue his Gospel particularly to Jews in order to explain them that certain, but far not all, Ordinances of the Old Testament become obsolete under new era of Christ.

Jesus of course did not abolished entire Law, it is His Law. Jesus abolished some physical Rituals, such as: sacrifices, food rules, concerning clean and unclean, and some other that do not related to the Spiritual Commandments of the Law of Moses.

But the Spiritual Commandments of the Law of Moses Jesus Christ completely preserved, and they called as a New Covenant in the Old Testament (see quotes above) and in the New Testament. Basically New Covenant and New Testament is the same Testament.

Every word Jesus ever said, all relate to the Spiritual Commandments of the Old Testament. So the effort of Paul was to detach newly formed Christian Jews from the physical Rituals of the OT and attach them to the Spiritual Ordinances of the same OT, called today as a New Testament (New Covenant).

It was very hard for newly formed and converted to Christ Jews to understand and to abolish old physical Rituals which they practices for centuries, and suddenly they became no longer necessary under Spiritual Commandment of the New Covenant of Christ.

Reading only passages and not entire context under which passages are made, never will lead to a proper understanding of the Scriptures, and very many do such mistake.


You wrote:
Also, did you miss this in your reading, sir?
" And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" ( Mark 2:27 ).."

LOL! It is not me who miss it, it is YOU who miss it. Go back to my post and see it for your self.

And I already know what you try to tell by posting this statement.

The meaning of this passage is this that the Sabbath made for man to OBSERVE it and to OBEY it, according to the Law that was written about it.

This is why Jesus often purposely provoked and angered religious leader by doing good deed of charity, healings, and even resurrection of the dead on the Sabbath Day. By doing this Jesus open all hypocrisy of the leaders who forbid Jesus to do such great deeds on the Sabbath Day, while themselves they did they own works on the Sabbath but forbid other people do the same.

So it means that in the case of worthy and reasonable emergency, Sabbath can be violated, even for such good deeds as charity (works of Faith) if it emergency or absolutely necessary, and this is why it is said, "and not man for the Sabbath."

For the sake of someone who is suffering or the life of a person in danger, Sabbath can be violated.

But no way the Sabbath can be dismissed according to the passage you presented, and that you perhaps meant to show.

 

[37818]

This is interesting...

“There was and is a command to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will however be readily said, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all its duties, privileges and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, where can the record of such a transaction be found: Not in the New Testament – absolutely not. There is no scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week.” Dr. E. T. Hiscox, author of the ‘Baptist Manual’.

In citing the Law what did Jesus say explicitly about the Sabbath?

 

[Alcott]

Powerful scriptures which both prove (in context) the perpetuity of the 7th day the sabbath and for Christians to keep holy.

Nonsense. They prove-- by what they say-- that regarding one day above any other days is a choice we make to the Lord, and no one is to act as judge over that. Got it, Your Dishonor?

 

[Alofa Atu]

Sabbath is for the weak. Get a job!


Joy unspeakable full of glory

Sabbath is for those who completely trust in God to provide. Take a break.

p.s. it was Pharaoh who said get back to work, Exodus 5, and called God's law "vain words".

 

[Alofa Atu]

In citing the Law what did Jesus say explicitly about the Sabbath?

Mar_3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

Luk_6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

Mat_12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.​

 

[Alofa Atu]

Nonsense. They prove-- by what they say-- that regarding one day above any other days is a choice we make to the Lord, and no one is to act as judge over that. Got it, Your Dishonor?

The text of Romans 14, doesn't say anything close to what you said, when you say, "that regarding one day above any other is a choice we make to the Lord, and no one is to act as judge over that."

It says instead:

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.​

Now combine with what Jesus said:

Luk_16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.​

The context of Romans 14 says nothing about disregarding God's Holy Day, the "Sabbath of the Lord", which God Himself esteems to be central to His spiritual Law and Character.

Show me the word "sabbath", "law", "commandment/s", "the 7th day" in the passages of Romans 14 KJB.
Romans 14, the quick of it.

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.​

This is used to teach that God regards not any day as Holy, such as the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11), and that all days or no days may be kept at man's whim. Yet that is not what Romans 14 (and yea, all of Romans) teaches at all. Notice carefully,

[1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.

[2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on

[3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem:

Luk_16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]

[4] the words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[5] the words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[6] the words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments

[8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

[9] the entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin:

Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

[10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

[11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14

[12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.

[13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).

[14] the words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14

[15] the words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[16] none of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".

[17] nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day

[18] anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances

Let's look at the details of Romans 14.

Romans 14 KJB, deals with the days that "man esteemeth" among men, see Luke 16:15 KJB. God esteems His Holy day [Job 23:12; Psalms 119:126-128 KJB].

The "day" in Romans 14 is associated with eating and not eating, among "men", which are days set apart for men for fasting/feasting, etc. The Jews had constantly fought with one another over which days were better to do this or that [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]. Some Jews decide that any day was fine to do any of those things, while others had specific days picked out for those things [see also the historical source the "Didache"]. Paul stated it didn't matter, and each was fine, so long as either side did it unto the LORD, to the glory of God, not for personal gain/prestige/notice [as the Pharisees had done], but that what mattered was brotherly love within the body, preferring one another. Connect Romans 14, to 1 Corinthians 8-10 KJB. There were issues with the Gentile believers purchasing food in the shambles [marketplaces] which may have been blessed or offered before idols, and some Jews, and possibly Gentiles believers which took offense at anyone partaking of those things. Paul stated that an Idol is nothing, but the persons for whom Christ Jesus died were of value, and therefore, regard the conscience of another, and cause no one to sin, even if what was eaten was immediately lawful to a person, but such freedom within God's law, not everything is always expedient, or best to do at all times. There were also Jewish believers in Christ who still under their vows, even Nazarite vows, and thus things of the vine in matters of eating and drinking would come into play as well. Just because Christ Jesus died on the Cross, doesn't negate their vow - they still had to carry out what they said they would do. If you Read Romans 1-13, the Law, the Ten Commandments of God are spoken of and cited throughout, as eternal, as the judge of sin [Romans 7:7 KJB; in fact how did you know you needed as Saviour? What Law was transgressed by yourself? Exodus 20:1-17 KJB], and Romans 15-16 continue and complete this picture. God's Ten Commandments are Eternal [Psalms 89:34 KJB], His Sabbath from Genesis to Revelation, even into the New Heavens and New Earth [Isaiah 66:22-23 KJB].

 

[Alofa Atu]

...Got it, Your Dishonor?

No, it is to the Honour and Glory of God to Honour Him in His Day:

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Isa 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

 

[robycop3]

No Scripture commands non-Israelis to observe the sabbath, same as none commands us to observe passover.

Colossians 2:16 applies:So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

 

[37818]

Mar_3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

Luk_6:9 Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?

Mat_12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.​

Ok, and what of any the other 9 laws are being cited to which Jesus is including the Sabbath in those references?

In citing the Law . . .

Like Mark 10:19? What does Jesus say about the need to observe the Sabbath, like Matthew 24:20? And that is future.