The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[Brightfame52]

Obviously you do not know what propitiation means BF or you would not ask why the children of disobedience will suffer the wrath of God.

G2434
ἱλασμός hilasmos
atoning sacrifice, sin offering

The benefit of Christ's blood for the sinner in the acceptance by the Father. Hilasmós refers to Christ as the one who not only propitiates but offers Himself as the propitiatory sacrifice. He is both the sacrifice and the officiating High Priest

Christ was the sacrifice that was offered to God to turn aside His wrath so that He could be gracious / merciful; and ready to forgive the sins of those that trust in His risen Son.

Its obvious you dont know what propitiation is. Nobody whom Christ is their propitiation has Gods wrath against them, and God is at peace with them, and Christ is their advocate. Now that doesnt apply to them who are under Gods wrath. Like these Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Now how in Gods creation do these people Have Christ as their propitiation ?

 

[Brightfame52]

So you are justifying your refusal to believe the word of God by saying God made you do it.

Wow I have seen twisted logic but that is a new one.

But that flies in the face of His word
1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

So are we living in the end times BF? Has the lawless one been revealed?

2Th 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
2Th 2:9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
2Th 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Th 2:12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

If not then you have no excuse for denying the truth of God's word.

Or are you saying that you have rejected the truth of God and are not saved?

How in Gods creation can a person believe the Truth and be saved, when God has passed Judgment on them and sends them a strong delusion to believe a lie ?

 

[Brightfame52]

I would dare say that the majority, if not all Calvinists here disagree with you.

You're in a class of Hyper-Calvinism I'm yet to see here from anyone else.

If God sends a person a strong delusion to believe a lie, how can they believe the truth ?

 

[Brightfame52]

It is wrong to prove a negative by its absence. There is no passage in all of Scrioture that says Christ's death alone saved. In contrast, there are passages that attribute salvation to Christ's life.

For example, there is no passage in all of Scripture that states Satan and Jesus are not brothers. By your logic Mormons are correct.

Ive given you my reasons and you disagree.

 

[JonC]

Ive given you my reasons and you disagree.

Not really.

You simply presented your theory and a passage disagreeing with that theory (a passage that stated we were reconciled by Christ's death and saved by His life).

But you did not give me any actual reason for what you posted except that it is what you believe.

And I gave you my reason for disagreeing with you (I believe God's Word is perfect and complete).

 

[Silverhair]

The problem with man made religion that goes out in the name of Christ is this:

They don't believe nor acknowledge that Christ Work alone for those He died for, His Sheep, that it made the salvation of their souls sure and effectual !

The problem with a man-made religion that is based on a philosophy brought into the church in the 4th century is that they have abused the word of God.

They do not believe nor acknowledge that Jesus is the propitiation for the whole world thus all men can be saved through faith in the risen Christ.

 

[Silverhair]

Its obvious you dont know what propitiation is. Nobody whom Christ is their propitiation has Gods wrath against them, and God is at peace with them, and Christ is their advocate. Now that doesnt apply to them who are under Gods wrath. Like these Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Now how in Gods creation do these people Have Christ as their propitiation ?

Do you not read the verses you post BF.

Propitiation is the means of appeasing the wrath of God

Christ was the sacrifice that was offered to God to turn aside His wrath so that He could be gracious / merciful; and ready to forgive the sins of those that trust in His risen Son.

Christ being the propitiation for the whole world does not save anyone but it does make all people saveable.

Now look at what you posted
Joh 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

God is willing and able to save anyone that will freely trust in His son.

 

[Silverhair]

How in Gods creation can a person believe the Truth and be saved, when God has passed Judgment on them and sends them a strong delusion to believe a lie ?

God has let them condemn themselves as they have hardened their hearts and continued to deny the truth. Just as Pharaoh did.

You pull verses out of context, the end times in this case, to make a general comment.

God has not at this time, to our best knowledge, blinded anyone to the truth. That is why we are to preach the gospel to all people as God is willing to save anyone that will trust in His son.

Your philosophy has rejected the truth that God desires all to be saved and has twisted the word of God to be that He only desires a pre-selected group to be saved. You have made the word of God into a lie.

There can be no more terrible blasphemy than for one to think that God will not allow any man to be saved.

 

[Brightfame52]

Not really.

You simply presented your theory and a passage disagreeing with that theory (a passage that stated we were reconciled by Christ's death and saved by His life).

But you did not give me any actual reason for what you posted except that it is what you believe.

And I gave you my reason for disagreeing with you (I believe God's Word is perfect and complete).

Yes really

 

[Brightfame52]

The problem with a man-made religion that is based on a philosophy brought into the church in the 4th century is that they have abused the word of God.

They do not believe nor acknowledge that Jesus is the propitiation for the whole world thus all men can be saved through faith in the risen Christ.

To deny the saving work of Christ is a serious thing. There is no Faith in Christ if you deny His Death saved them He died for.

 

[Brightfame52]

Do you not read the verses you post BF.

Propitiation is the means of appeasing the wrath of God

Christ was the sacrifice that was offered to God to turn aside His wrath so that He could be gracious / merciful; and ready to forgive the sins of those that trust in His risen Son.

Christ being the propitiation for the whole world does not save anyone but it does make all people saveable.

Now look at what you posted
Joh 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life;
but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

God is willing and able to save anyone that will freely trust in His son.

Again its impossible for Christ to be your propitiation b4 God and yet be under the wrath of God. How can them who are under wrath of God and appointed to wrath as some obviously are judging from 1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

How is God propitiated towards them as He is towards these 1 Jn 2:2 ?

 

[Brightfame52]

God has let them condemn themselves as they have hardened their hearts and continued to deny the truth. Just as Pharaoh did.

You pull verses out of context, the end times in this case, to make a general comment.

God has not at this time, to our best knowledge, blinded anyone to the truth. That is why we are to preach the gospel to all people as God is willing to save anyone that will trust in His son.

Your philosophy has rejected the truth that God desires all to be saved and has twisted the word of God to be that He only desires a pre-selected group to be saved. You have made the word of God into a lie.

There can be no more terrible blasphemy than for one to think that God will not allow any man to be saved.

How can a person who is condemned, and God has sent them a strong delusion to believe a lie, how is it even possible for them to believe the truth and become saved ? What do they reverse what God did and stop believing a lie ?

 

[Silverhair]

To deny the saving work of Christ is a serious thing. There is no Faith in Christ if you deny His Death saved them He died for.

The fact you continue to deny what the bible actually say is a serious issue for you BF.

The saving work of Christ started with His covering the sins of the world through His sacrificial death on the cross and was finished with His resurrection to life so that those that trust in the risen Son will be saved.

If Christ had not been raised we would not have a savior to trust in BF. You want to present have the gospel.

You preach vs 3
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

and ignore vs 4
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

 

[Brightfame52]

The fact you continue to deny what the bible actually say is a serious issue for you BF.

The saving work of Christ started with His covering the sins of the world through His sacrificial death on the cross and was finished with His resurrection to life so that those that trust in the risen Son will be saved.

If Christ had not been raised we would not have a savior to trust in BF. You want to present have the gospel.

You preach vs 3
1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

and ignore vs 4
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

What do you say to people ? I have Faith in Christ but His Death didnt save anyone ? Tell Jesus, Jesus, I believe in you even though your shed blood didnt save me from my sins.

 

[Silverhair]

Again its impossible for Christ to be your propitiation b4 God and yet be under the wrath of God. How can them who are under wrath of God and appointed to wrath as some obviously are judging from 1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

How is God propitiated towards them as He is towards these 1 Jn 2:2 ?

Because propitiation does not mean saved BF.

1Jn 2:2 makes three clear statements BF
He Himself [Jesus] is the propitiation for our sins;
and not for ours only,
but also for those of the whole world.

If propitiation meant saved then the whole world would be saved. Are they?

Now look at 1Th 5:9

1Th 5:8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

Paul is writing to believers BF. While Christ covered the sins of the whole world and thus all are able to be saved it is only those that will believe " having put on the breastplate of faith and love" that will be saved.

 

[Silverhair]

What do you say to people ? I have Faith in Christ but His Death didnt save anyone ? Tell Jesus, Jesus, I believe in you even though your shed blood didnt save me from my sins.

I tell them the complete gospel message BF, just as you should.

1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

If the death of Christ saved then what is the requirement for faith BF?

The death of Christ on the cross makes salvation possible, faith in the risen Christ makes salvation actual.

 

[Brightfame52]

Because propitiation does not mean saved BF.

1Jn 2:2 makes three clear statements BF
He Himself [Jesus] is the propitiation for our sins;
and not for ours only,
but also for those of the whole world.

If propitiation meant saved then the whole world would be saved. Are they?

Now look at 1Th 5:9

1Th 5:8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Th 5:10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

Paul is writing to believers BF. While Christ covered the sins of the whole world and thus all are able to be saved it is only those that will believe " having put on the breastplate of faith and love" that will be saved.

When God is propitiated, He doesnt have wrath towards the propitiated, He is reconciled to them, they are in His Favor

Now God doesnt have a ounce of wrath against this whole world 1 Jn 2:2 so it cannot include anyone under His Wrath

 

[Brightfame52]

I tell them the complete gospel message BF, just as you should.

1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

If the death of Christ saved then what is the requirement for faith BF?

The death of Christ on the cross makes salvation possible, faith in the risen Christ makes salvation actual.

First of all, you reject the Gospel, because you call it calvinism, then you believe Christ died a death for sinners that didnt save them, thats your good news. So when Paul emphasized the Cross of Christ 1 Cor 2:

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Be sure to tell Paul, yeah but that didnt save anyone Paul. So what should a person put their Faith in Christs blood for ? Scripture talks about Faith in His Blood Rom 3:25

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Why Faith in His blood since according to you, it didnt save anyone ?

 

[JonC]

Yes really

No, not really.

You gave a verse and stated it was wrong because you believed it was wrong.

You never said why we are saved by Jesus' death or why Scripture got it wrong.

You just left it at "believe me, not God" without explaining why we should.

 

[Silverhair]

When God is propitiated, He doesnt have wrath towards the propitiated, He is reconciled to them, they are in His Favor

Now God doesnt have a ounce of wrath against this whole world 1 Jn 2:2 so it cannot include anyone under His Wrath

Where do you come up with these silly ideas BF.

God still has wrath against sin, but because the of the atonement He is able to be just and forgive those that trust in His son.

Note what it says in John
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

The world can be saved but only those that freely trust will be saved.