Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Frogman: "I admit I understand very little of this topic and
as I read more historical confessions there are very
few evidences of either pre-mil and especially pre-trib
belief among Old Baptists or other Baptistic groups."
I also understand little. As for the 'historical confessions' I'm
unable to check all these out that they were said as quoted.
I've seen too much 'slander by ellipsis (...)'* from those who
quote sources i can't check. I can check nearly any version
of the Bible ever printed. I take the moral high ground that i
don't use the writings of the ECF = early church fathers
nor do i use the 'historical confessions'. I'm sure that from
about 325 until well into the Protestant Reformation that the
dominant church of Europe: The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) were
post-millennial - they would set up a world that was good enough
for Jesus to come and rule.
*The worse of the anti-pretribbers for doing the 'slander by ellipsis (...)
was Dave MacPherson.
Again, I say, the 117-18th century Baptist confessions were made
to unite brothers separated by different eschatologies. Their statements
tend to allow many different eschatologies.
Frogman: "I also admit I don't understand the post you made and I
have quoted above, would you elaborate upon it a little?"
I'm not sure how I can elaborate. I understand what I said.
Are you wondering what place it has in the conversation?
One of the arguments against the pretribs is that they keep
naming dates which prove to be wrong. In fact, the True Church has
always believed that Jesus would come get them SOON. All post-tribs
violate the 'soon' because the Lord has to wait to come get the
church after 7-years of Tribulation Period (some say 3½-years).
In either case, the time of the Glorious Second Coming of Jesus to
defeat the Antichrist and set up a Physical Millennial Kingdom -
that time is known IF YOU KNOW WHEN THE PRETRIB rapture took place.
Right now we don't know when the pretrib rapture will take place
but we know the Glorious Second Coming even will happen 7-years
(some say 3½-years ) later.
So we cannot know the day or the hour (day = proper time) (hour =
proper time) and not knowing the day or the hour means that the
pretribulation rapture/resurrection is NEAR but not here yet.
(though if the Lord comes before i get this writing posted, we won't
care a bit)
As for the ideas of what God's plan for the future is like - this has
been developing within the church through the years. So we have
no problem saying that the Great Doctor Wallvoor is wrong, for we stand
on his giant shoulders and can see further then he can.
When I was saved at a pretribulation rapture revival in April 1952,
I thought: Now I'll be ready when Jesus comes to get me. It is going to
be good to see God whip it on the bad guys who are left after the
rapture/resurrection. In 1963-1967 I was in the Air Force some 300 miles from
the iron curtain. After I got out I found out about 1964 was the first year
that the US had enough nuclear weapons to kill all life on earth about 6
times over and The USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) had enough
nuclear weapons to kill all live on the face of the earth a dozen times over.
(Since do to weapon controls there are only enough nuclear weapons on the
earth to kill only all human life and maybe not all life on earth)
Now it is obvious that the Lord has to interfere in the affairs of mankind
to save mankind from destroying themselves. It is obvious now that the God
inspired prophecies of the Holy Bible knew this would happen in the future.
Note that it was AD1964 before we could understand this and NOT IN AD70.
Another argument against the pretribs is that they divide the largely gentile church
from the national Jewish Israeli church. Well quite frankly, so does the Holy Bible.
1 Corinthians 10:32 (KJV1769) /emphasis added by Ed/:
Give none offense, neither to the JEWS,
nor to the GENTILES, nor to the CHURCH OF GOD.
Strange that in the Gentile Age (AKA: Church Age, Age of Grace, etc.) God
has Paul write about three groups;
1. unsaved GENTILES
2. saved gentiles in the CHURCH OF GOD
3. JEWS.
But hey, one aught be able to overcome what the Bible says if they
quote enough discombobulated ECF quotes and early Confessions
as I read more historical confessions there are very
few evidences of either pre-mil and especially pre-trib
belief among Old Baptists or other Baptistic groups."
I also understand little. As for the 'historical confessions' I'm
unable to check all these out that they were said as quoted.
I've seen too much 'slander by ellipsis (...)'* from those who
quote sources i can't check. I can check nearly any version
of the Bible ever printed. I take the moral high ground that i
don't use the writings of the ECF = early church fathers
nor do i use the 'historical confessions'. I'm sure that from
about 325 until well into the Protestant Reformation that the
dominant church of Europe: The Roman Catholic Church (RCC) were
post-millennial - they would set up a world that was good enough
for Jesus to come and rule.
*The worse of the anti-pretribbers for doing the 'slander by ellipsis (...)
was Dave MacPherson.
Again, I say, the 117-18th century Baptist confessions were made
to unite brothers separated by different eschatologies. Their statements
tend to allow many different eschatologies.
Frogman: "I also admit I don't understand the post you made and I
have quoted above, would you elaborate upon it a little?"
I'm not sure how I can elaborate. I understand what I said.
Are you wondering what place it has in the conversation?
One of the arguments against the pretribs is that they keep
naming dates which prove to be wrong. In fact, the True Church has
always believed that Jesus would come get them SOON. All post-tribs
violate the 'soon' because the Lord has to wait to come get the
church after 7-years of Tribulation Period (some say 3½-years).
In either case, the time of the Glorious Second Coming of Jesus to
defeat the Antichrist and set up a Physical Millennial Kingdom -
that time is known IF YOU KNOW WHEN THE PRETRIB rapture took place.
Right now we don't know when the pretrib rapture will take place
but we know the Glorious Second Coming even will happen 7-years
(some say 3½-years ) later.
So we cannot know the day or the hour (day = proper time) (hour =
proper time) and not knowing the day or the hour means that the
pretribulation rapture/resurrection is NEAR but not here yet.
(though if the Lord comes before i get this writing posted, we won't
care a bit)
As for the ideas of what God's plan for the future is like - this has
been developing within the church through the years. So we have
no problem saying that the Great Doctor Wallvoor is wrong, for we stand
on his giant shoulders and can see further then he can.
When I was saved at a pretribulation rapture revival in April 1952,
I thought: Now I'll be ready when Jesus comes to get me. It is going to
be good to see God whip it on the bad guys who are left after the
rapture/resurrection. In 1963-1967 I was in the Air Force some 300 miles from
the iron curtain. After I got out I found out about 1964 was the first year
that the US had enough nuclear weapons to kill all life on earth about 6
times over and The USSR (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) had enough
nuclear weapons to kill all live on the face of the earth a dozen times over.
(Since do to weapon controls there are only enough nuclear weapons on the
earth to kill only all human life and maybe not all life on earth)
Now it is obvious that the Lord has to interfere in the affairs of mankind
to save mankind from destroying themselves. It is obvious now that the God
inspired prophecies of the Holy Bible knew this would happen in the future.
Note that it was AD1964 before we could understand this and NOT IN AD70.
Another argument against the pretribs is that they divide the largely gentile church
from the national Jewish Israeli church. Well quite frankly, so does the Holy Bible.
1 Corinthians 10:32 (KJV1769) /emphasis added by Ed/:
Give none offense, neither to the JEWS,
nor to the GENTILES, nor to the CHURCH OF GOD.
Strange that in the Gentile Age (AKA: Church Age, Age of Grace, etc.) God
has Paul write about three groups;
1. unsaved GENTILES
2. saved gentiles in the CHURCH OF GOD
3. JEWS.
But hey, one aught be able to overcome what the Bible says if they
quote enough discombobulated ECF quotes and early Confessions
