The Second Coming Of Our Lord Jesus Christ

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
Is fear of death the reason so many people believe in a pre trib rapture. Scripture teaches that God has said: I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. [Hebrews 13:5; 1 Kings 8:57; Psalms 27:9]

Is love of suffering
the reason that some say we must be dragged
through the Tribulation Judgement?

Act 5:40-41 (KJV1611 Edition):
And to him they agreed: and when they had
called the Apostles, and beaten them, they
commanded that they should not speake in
the Name of Iesus, and let them goe.
41 And they departed from the
presence of the Councill, reioycing
that they were counted worthy to suffer
shame for his Name.

Please note "his Name". His name is "Jesus"
his title is "Christ" or "Messiah".

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
You might be surprised to learn that I don't own "ANYTHING", other than the "KJV".

No "lexicons", No "Dictionaries", No "Cross-referrences", No "word numbering", NOTHING.

About the only "Extra material" I make uses of are "OLD JEWISH CUSTOMS", as the OT is our "school Master", so are many of these "customs".

I depend 100% on the "SPIRIT" to teach me, and by the "SPIRIT" I "RECOGNIZE" the "TRUTH" in "words", regardless of the writer.

"TRUTH IS TRUTH".

Besides, I'm more "QUALIFIED" than Walvoord.

1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;

Amen, Brother Me4Him -- Preach it!

I notice that you and I are attacked for
saying we are more correct than 'one
Dead Honorary Doctor. But the one who condemns us
for that is willing to make a full frontal
attack and raise a tower against
the walls of the 16 Million Southern Bapatists.
Obviously he believes in the full blown
doctrine of Soul Competency

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
6) Who are the 144,000 sealed Jews?

A group of Messanic Jews from the church age
raptured at the pretribulation rapture/resurrection
selected for special service on the earth
during the Tribulation period.

So we have 144,000 Christians running around during this so-called 7 year tribulation period in resurrection bodies? They went to heaven with Jesus cChrist then had to turn around and come back to this world of sin. Interesting, but then we have a scholar greater than Dr. Walvoord on board. </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, you have it figured out. That makes you a scholar greater than Dr (honorary) Walvoord

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
I can see we Church Age elect appealing to Jesus to end the
torment of the earthly bound during the Great Tribulation.

This is contrary to Scripture. In fact in Revelation we read:

Relation 6:9,10
9. And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
Is love of suffering
the reason that some say we must be dragged
through the Tribulation Judgement?

Act 5:40-41 (KJV1611 Edition):
And to him they agreed: and when they had
called the Apostles, and beaten them, they
commanded that they should not speake in
the Name of Iesus, and let them goe.
41 And they departed from the
presence of the Councill, reioycing
that they were counted worthy to suffer
shame for his Name.

Looks like you answered your own question. You are learning ED! However, ever so slowly!

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
But the one who condemns us
for that is willing to make a full frontal
attack and raise a tower against
the walls of the 16 Million Southern Bapatists.
Obviously he believes in the full blown
doctrine of Soul Competency

Ed it is foolish to state that all Southern Baptist are pre trib. I have already shown that the Baptist Faith and Message refutes the pre trib error.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Me4Him:
Besides, I'm more "QUALIFIED" than Walvoord.

Nothing like modesty in a Christian!

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
D) Is martyrdom a prerequisite for salvation
during the tribulation?

Yes, for gentiles.
No, for Jewish Israeli.

Scripture??????????? </font>[/QUOTE]I am waiting Ed. Since you use Scripture alone I must assume you have a Scriptural basis for this statement unless you have received a direct Revelation from God.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
C) Will there be a mass period of evangelism during
the tribulation?

No, for gentiles.
Yes, for Jewish Israeli.

Scripture???????? </font>[/QUOTE]I am waiting Ed. Since you use Scripture alone I must assume you have a Scriptural basis for this statement unless you have received a direct Revelation from God.

 

[Frogman]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
6) Who are the 144,000 sealed Jews?

A group of Messanic Jews from the church age
raptured at the pretribulation rapture/resurrection
selected for special service on the earth
during the Tribulation period.

So we have 144,000 Christians running around during this so-called 7 year tribulation period in resurrection bodies? They went to heaven with Jesus cChrist then had to turn around and come back to this world of sin. Interesting, but then we have a scholar greater than Dr. Walvoord on board. </font>[/QUOTE]Dear Brother Ol Regular,
I don't want to enter into a disagreement nor to argue, but I do want to point out that everyone that was resurrected during the OT and also during the earthly ministry of Christ faced death again.

The Jews taught and perhaps still do that this fact caused great sadness in Lazarus.

Just thought I would point that out, the last statement can be taken or left, but the first statement, inmho, is amply supported by scripture.

May God Bless,
Bro. Dallas Eaton

BTW, in my poor understanding, I have never heard anyone teach the 144,000 Jews would be raptured with the saints at Christ's appearing in the air.

Just a thought.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Me4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
n fact Scripture teaches repeatedly that tribulation is the norm of life for the Saints, the true believers.

Normal everyday "tribulations, YES, but not "GREAT TRIBULATION", a time such as never been before or ever will be again.
</font>[/QUOTE]Now what could be worse than being eaten alive by wild animals or covered with pitch and used as candles for Roman feasts. Tribulation may involve a few, great tribulation would involve many. In another thread it has been pointed out that there were more Christian martyrs in the 20th century than the previous 19. So define "great tribulation" for me. </font>[/QUOTE]Go to:

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3398.html

Read all of those post, because one confirms the other, (Two witness principle) you have to "SEE" the "WHOLE PICTURE" to really understand it.

Do you know "WHY" there is a Tribulation period???

 

[Ed Edwards]

OldRegular: "Ed it is foolish to state that all Southern Baptist
are pre trib."

Amen, Brother OldRegular -- Preach it! That is why i never said
any such thing. But here is a statement also true:

Ed: "OldRegular it is foolish to state that all Southern Baptist
are post trib." Who do we know said that?

OldRegular: "I have already shown that the Baptist Faith and Message refutes the pre trib error."

But the only one you showed it to was yourself???

 

[Frogman]

Dear Brethren,
Please keep the posts related to the immediate topic of 'The Second Coming of Our Lord Jesus Christ' and refrain from continually bashing each other in the attempt to disprove the other's position.

After this post I am going to start deleting any post that is in anyway perceived to be character bashing rather than having an intent to discuss and thereby present the various understandings. It is safe to assume this issue will not be true nor false based upon our agreement nor our disagreement but based upon God's Will.

This post should serve all participators as a warning that only material found to be directly supportive of one belief or the other will be left untouched, anything else will be taken away, so to speak.

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

[Ed Edwards]

Frogman: //BTW, in my poor understanding, I have never heard anyone
teach the 144,000 Jews would be raptured with the saints
at Christ's appearing in the air.//

Hense the discussion a few pages back about going beyond what
the Dallas Theological Seminary taught 40 years ago. We live
in the age (started in 1956) when mankind can do as much evil
to the world as to make the Revelation sound like a Sunday
School Picnic. It is time to gird our loins and pull in the
pretirbulation harvest, perchance the last harvest of Gentiles before
the pretribularion rapture.

Most of the published pretribulation rapture writers now do
NOT yet teach this. Doubtless if you went to a pretrib seminary
this was not taught. But it makes sense. The Gentile Age
elect saints are largely gentiles (maybe as many as two Billion
from AD33 to AD2005) with but a few Messianic Jews
(probably only 2 Million, half of them in the last 15 years).
These are they that will be raptured/resurrected at the beginning
of the Tribulation Period

BTW, 'Messianic Jews' refers to Jews who believe that Jesus
Ben-Joseph of Nasareth is the Messiah. While Messianic Jews
are part of the church of the Gentile Age elect saints,
I do NOT consider them Christians. Adolf Hitler was sold
to 12 Million World Jewish Israeli as a Chrisitan in the 1940s
and killed half those Jews (six million). These members of
the church of the Gentile Age elect saints are called Messianic
Jews. It is from them the 144,000 will be selected, a literal
12,000 from each of the 12 tribes named in Revelation
(which BTW is different from the 12 tribes named elsewhere
in the Bible).

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
D) Is martyrdom a prerequisite for salvation
during the tribulation?

Yes, for gentiles.
No, for Jewish Israeli.

Scripture??????????? </font>[/QUOTE]I am waiting Ed. Since you use Scripture alone I must assume you have a Scriptural basis for this statement unless you have received a direct Revelation from God. </font>[/QUOTE]Unfortunately, Sir, you do NOT set my priorities.
God has given me a special opportunity this week
to participate in a series of revival meetings.
The objective of these revival meetings is
to lead people in my community to have an
salvation experience with God.

It seem to be a Southern Baptist habit
to continually bring folks into the
Kingdom of God in this manner. That is why
of the the Southern Baptists make up 40%
of all the Baptists in the USofA.

 

[Me4Him]

OldRegular:
[/QB]

Here's the Bible in a "PICTURE", including the "Feast days" and how they correspond to event's in the NT, and the parables of the "fig trees".

And I can "PROVE" every point "WITH SCRIPTURE", and a "Second witness".

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Frogman:
Dear Brother Ol Regular,
I don't want to enter into a disagreement nor to argue, but I do want to point out that everyone that was resurrected during the OT and also during the earthly ministry of Christ faced death again.

May God Bless,
Bro. Dallas Eaton

BTW, in my poor understanding, I have never heard anyone teach the 144,000 Jews would be raptured with the saints at Christ's appearing in the air.

Just a thought.

You correctly state that those who were raised from the dead in both the Old and New Testaments died again. However, I do not believe that these people had a glorified body like that of Jesus Christ after His resurrection and as described by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15.

 

[Frogman]

Dear Brother Ol Regular,
Thanks, now I see the point of the post I replied to previously.

Sorry to have jumped in before I understood your meaning.

The difference being the glorified body of the resurrected saints returning to earth, with the resurrected bodies of others who remained in this world were yet to be called to their heavenly home.

Again, forgive me and thanks for the clarification.

Bro. Dallas Eaton

 

[Me4Him]

A "GLORIFIED BODY" is one kept alive by "SPIRIT", not "Blood", that's why we have to be willing to "Shed our blood" (crucify old man) for that body sustained by "SPIRIT".

We'll be "LIKE JESUS" after his resurrection.

Lu 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Adam created, Flesh/Bone/Spirit

Adam sinned, Flesh/Bone/Blood

Jesus born, Flesh/Bone/Blood

Jesus resurrected, Flesh/Bone/Spirit

Christians resurrected, Flesh/Bone/Spirit

MAN RESTORED TO HIS ORIGINAL CREATION STATE

 

[OldRegular]

Me4Him

I always thought that man was possessed with a soul or spirit. I don't see much point to your post.