The Self-Centered God

[Rippon]

Tim To Revive This Needed Truth

I say that reverently. A couple posters ( you know who you are !) referenced this Calvinistic belief. The Lord is jealous for the Honor of His Holy Name. It is certainly sinful for fallen people to be self-centered , but it is wholly good for God to bring glory to Himself. He is the Center -- it is right for Him to be self-centered.

Snippets will follow .

Ez. 20:9 But for the sake of my name ...

Ez. 20:22 ... for the sake of my name

Ez. 20:44 ... I deal with you for my name's sake

Ez. 36:22 This is what the Sovereign Lord says : It is not for your sake, ... but for the sake of my holy name .

Ez. 36:32 I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake ...

Is. 42:8 I am the Lord ; that is my name ! I will not give my glory to another ...

Is. 43:7 everyone who is called by my name , whom I created for my glory

Is. 43:25 I , even I , am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake ...

Is. 48:11 For my own sake, for my own sake , I do this . How can I let myself be defamed ? I will not yield my glory to another .

There are many passages to ponder which extoll the fact that God desires to glorify Himself. He is indeed self-centered in a most glorious manner.

 

[Luke2427]

I disagree. The reason? His love for us.

But, He is glorified in the process.

What is his MOTIVE for loving you, Amy?

 

[Luke2427]

I say that reverently . A couple posters ( you know who you are !) referenced this Calvinistic belief . The Lord is jealous for the Honor of His Holy Name . It is certainly sinful for fallen people to be self-centered , but it is wholly good for God to bring glory to Himself . He is the Center -- it is right for Him to be self-centered .

Snippets will follow .

Ez. 20:9 But for the sake of my name ...

Ez. 20:22 ... for the sake of my name

Ez. 20:44 ... I deal with you for my name's sake

Ez. 36:22 This is what the Sovereign Lord says : It is not for your sake, ... but for the sake of my holy name .

Ez. 36:32 I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake ...

Is. 42:8 I am the Lord ; that is my name ! I will not give my glory to another ...

Is. 43:7 everyone who is called by my name , whom I created for my glory

Is. 43:25 I , even I , am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake ...

Is. 48:11 For my own sake, for my own sake , I do this . How can I let myself be defamed ? I will not yield my glory to another .

God bless you for bringing this up.

The fact that modern theology has forgotten THIS truth is the greatest travesty in our age.

The singular greatest need in modern "Christendom" is a revival of this truth in our religious thinking.

The forgetting of it has done more damage to the Kingdom, imo, than all the modern heresies put together.

I plead with God that he might graciously open our eyes once again to this magnanimous truth.

 

[slave 4 Christ]

Is God Self-centered?

If He was not, then there would be nothing but Him.

Why? Because all creation is a manifesting of HIS Glory.

Isaiah gives us a glimpse into this blessed truth.

1 In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called to another and said:
"Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!"

This is a rare glimpse into the very throne room of God.

What do we hear?

The angels of God are calling to one another. Crying aloud the very essence of who God is.

He is the thrice Holy God, who manifests Himself by creating earth to fill it with His Glory.

Everything about creation, including mankind, exists for one, and only one reason.

FOR GOD TO BE GLORIFIED.

 

[Cypress]

Thats it. All caps. It's over! Seriously though, who is God needing or wanting to display His glory to. Non sentient beings would't get it. Narrows it down to angels and humans. Does God need redeemed and fallen creatures to display glory to? Could He get by with only one or the other? Or does He just need them to display it to Himself. Serious question as I am trying to grasp the Cal?doG logic. I kinda see it as need based the way you are presenting it.

 

[TomVols]

You guys sound like John Piper. That is so good. I know you would come around to what is at the heart of Scripture: God. Now read "God is the Gospel."

In modern American Christianity, what you just said is heresy. The center of the Bible for most Christians, and sadly, most Baptists, is the person in the mirror. God is a character on their stage. Life is all about me. I'm saved to give me A,B,C...etc., with a wink and a nod towards God.

It is alien to the Bible, but it is resident within the American Church.

 

[slave 4 Christ]

Quote from Cypress

Thats it. All caps. It's over! Seriously though, who is God needing or wanting to display His glory to. Non sentient beings would't get it. Narrows it down to angels and humans. Does God need redeemed and fallen creatures to display glory to? Could He get by with only one or the other? Or does He just need them to display it to Himself. Serious question as I am trying to grasp the Cal?doG logic. I kinda see it as need based the way you are presenting it.

The question is not why does God display His Glory.

I admit I do not know why The God of all that is would desire to absolutely display His Glory.

But this I do know.

He has, is and will display His Glory that some would glorify Him.

In fact, the ultimate display of God's Glory is God's Son.

14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Then we hear our Lord as He prays in John 17,

4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.

What did Jesus do? glorified the Father
Where did Jesus glorify the Father? earth
How did Jesus glorify the Father? "the work accomplished"

God the Father's Glory was certainly important to Jesus.

One more from John 17....

24Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.

Jesus has here a desire to show unto a select group of people something wonderful.

What? SEE HIS GLORY

 

[Cypress]

Slave,
I like this, especially seeing this "because you loved me before the foundation of the world. "
Nice response, thanks:love2:
I do feel that my question is valid as presented in light of the OP and progress of the discussion.. Any reason why it isn't?

 

[kyredneck]

Is God Self-centered?

If He was not, then there would be nothing but Him.

Why? Because all creation is a manifesting of HIS Glory.

Isaiah gives us a glimpse into this blessed truth.

1 In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. 2 Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called to another and said:
"Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!"

This is a rare glimpse into the very throne room of God.

What do we hear?

The angels of God are calling to one another. Crying aloud the very essence of who God is.

He is the thrice Holy God, who manifests Himself by creating earth to fill it with His Glory.

Everything about creation, including mankind, exists for one, and only one reason.

FOR GOD TO BE GLORIFIED.

Excellent post. Thanks.

 

[Luke2427]

Thats it. All caps. It's over! Seriously though, who is God needing or wanting to display His glory to. Non sentient beings would't get it. Narrows it down to angels and humans. Does God need redeemed and fallen creatures to display glory to? Could He get by with only one or the other? Or does He just need them to display it to Himself. Serious question as I am trying to grasp the Cal?doG logic. I kinda see it as need based the way you are presenting it.

Here is the answer to your question from what secular and sacred historians and Calvinists and Arminians alike agree is the greatest theological and philosophical mind in American history

Here is Edwards' stunning answer:

It is a proper and excellent thing for infinite glory to shine forth; and for the same reason, it is proper that the shining forth of God's glory should be complete; that is, that all parts of his glory should shine forth, that every beauty should be proportionably effulgent, that the beholder may have a proper notion of God. It is not proper that one glory should be exceedingly manifested, and another not at all. . . .

Thus it is necessary, that God's awful majesty, his authority and dreadful greatness, justice, and holiness, should be manifested. But this could not be, unless sin and punishment had been decreed; so that the shining forth of God's glory would be very imperfect, both because these parts of divine glory would not shine forth as the others do, and also the glory of his goodness, love, and holiness would be faint without them; nay, they could scarcely shine forth at all.

If it were not right that God should decree and permit and punish sin, there could be no manifestation of God's holiness in hatred of sin, or in showing any preference, in his providence, of godliness before it. There would be no manifestation of God's grace or true goodness, if there was no sin to be pardoned, no misery to be saved from. How much happiness soever he bestowed, his goodness would not be so much prized and admired. . . .

So evil is necessary, in order to the highest happiness of the creature, and the completeness of that communication of God, for which he made the world; because the creature's happiness consists in the knowledge of God, and the sense of his love. And if the knowledge of him be imperfect, the happiness of the creature must be proportionably imperfect.

 

[Luke2427]

The question is not why does God display His Glory.

I admit I do not know why The God of all that is would desire to absolutely display His Glory.

But this I do know.

He has, is and will display His Glory that some would glorify Him.

In fact, the ultimate display of God's Glory is God's Son.

14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Then we hear our Lord as He prays in John 17,

4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.

What did Jesus do? glorified the Father
Where did Jesus glorify the Father? earth
How did Jesus glorify the Father? "the work accomplished"

God the Father's Glory was certainly important to Jesus.

One more from John 17....

24Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.

Jesus has here a desire to show unto a select group of people something wonderful.

What? SEE HIS GLORY

Very good. Thanks.

 

[Rippon]

He revels in His glory. Before He created the heavenly host and Adam, His focus was on His glory -- it is still His chief focus.

It's not only about God receiving glory -- but the scriptural fact that He is worthy in and of Himself to dwell on His own glory. For us to contemplate on His glory is paramount. Even being instruments in leading folks to the Lord is secondary to the primary focus of the Bible -- God is most satisfied when He is thinking of Himself and His honor and Name.

Yeah, this needs to be repeated.

 

[psalms109:31]

Glorified us

Romans 1:
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Romans 8:
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[Or that all things work together for good to those who love God, who; or that in all things God works together with those who love him to bring about what is good—with those who] have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Why would a self-centered God want us to be glorified? Self-centered doesn't give, but take don't it?

 

[Rippon]

Why would a self-centered God want us to be glorified? Self-centered doesn't give, but take don't it?

Not "a",but the self-centered God. You don't know the Bible too well. And you haven't read any of the posts that I have made on this thread.

When people are self-centered --they are sinning. God does not sin. He is thrice Holy. Have you ever heard that He is a Jealous God? For humans jealousy would be sinful. But God is jealous and it is in perfect harmony with His character. He is pure.We are not.

The God of the Bible will bring His people to glory as you quoted from Romans 8:30. There is no contradiction. He will glorify them i.e.bring them to heaven in a glorified state.

You have to remember the huge gulf separating God from people. Christ bridged that expanse. But you have to concentrate on the fact that God is God. He does whatever He pleases. Whatever He does is perfect. When we are self-centered or jealous --we are in sin. When God is centered on Himself -- His own glory --there is no sin --only perfection. When He is jealous it is righteous jealousy.

 

[psalms109:31]

Opinion

I have a lot of respect for you and putting your opinion of me and the scripture wasn't nice but for others that agree with you, you probable got a lot of brownie points for that.

God is never self-centered because we finally know God through Jesus Christ.

Jesus glorified the Father, and we glorify the Son, because we know He will glorify the Father and He is our mediator to God the only way to glorify the Father is through the Son. The Father glorifies us because of the Holy Spirit in us.

They glorify each other it is a beautiful circle of glory. What an example for us!

God has no reason to be jealous of a people doing what He wants them to, unless they are not.

God is telling us He is jealous God for us to worship, glorify Him, thank Him for all He has done.

Romans 1::
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Not to grumble for not given us meat when our bellies are full from manna. To say we were better off as slaves in Egypt.

God appointed, ordained, anointed Lucifer as a cherub a Guardian not for what he has become. he was blameless in his ways tell wickedness was found in him

It is a shame to say God is self-centered when all He wanted to do was gather them like hen gathers her chicks, but they were not willing.

Matthew 12:7
If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.

Hosea 6:6
For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

 

[Rippon]

I have a lot of respect for you and putting your opinion of me and the scripture wasn't nice but for others that agree with you, you probable got a lot of brownie points for that.

I have no idea what you are talking about or what you mean.

God is never self-centered because we finally know God through Jesus Christ.

God is indeed self-centered. He's not selfish.Maybe you're confused. He is centered on His own glory. We should be centered on God's glory.

God has no reason to be jealous of a people doing what He wants them to, unless they are not.

God is telling us He is jealous God for us to worship, glorify Him, thank Him for all He has done.

i can't tell from what you are saying if you agree or disagree. Is God a jealous God,or not? The Bible says He is.

It is a shame to say God is self-centered when all He wanted to do was gather them like hen gathers her chicks, but they were not willing.

Huh? Your thoughts are so disjointed it is very difficult to understand the points you are trying to make.

The Lord God is self-centered.I'm glad He is.You should be too. He deserves all glory and praise -- no one else.

The verses you cite have nothing at all to do with the subject at hand. Why not comment on my post #114 by going over it line by line and telling where you agree or disagree -- why and why not. I just had four short paragraphs.

 

[psalms109:31]

Scripture

God has always been centered on His People, not centered on Himself. Like He wanted to gather them like a hen gathers her chicks, but they were not willing. God is willing, it was them that wasn't.

The example of Christ isn't self centered, because His glory that He received He gave it to the Father, I don't see the self centered of God. What an example for us to pass it on to other like the God head. Jesus glorifies the Father the Father glorifies the Son and the Holy Spirit that is in us. The Holy Spirit glorifies the Son, the Son glorifies the Father, then the Father glorifies the Son and the Holy Spirit that is in us a continual circle of glory. Never one part of the God head glorifies Himself. That is an example of being meek and humble.

I will ask you a question again dealing with the Jealous God.

Why would God be jealous of a people doing exactly what He wants them to do, unless they are not?

 

[Rippon]

Ps.,please respond to my post numbered 114. Reply line-for-line. Thanks.

 

[psalms109:31]

Not "a",but the self-centered God. You don't know the Bible too well. And you haven't read any of the posts that I have made on this thread.



When people are self-centered --they are sinning. God does not sin. He is thrice Holy. Have you ever heard that He is a Jealous God? For humans jealousy would be sinful. But God is jealous and it is in perfect harmony with His character. He is pure.We are not.

The God of the Bible will bring His people to glory as you quoted from Romans 8:30. There is no contradiction. He will glorify them i.e.bring them to heaven in a glorified state.

You have to remember the huge gulf separating God from people. Christ bridged that expanse. But you have to concentrate on the fact that God is God. He does whatever He pleases. Whatever He does is perfect. When we are self-centered or jealous --we are in sin. When God is centered on Himself -- His own glory --there is no sin --only perfection. When He is jealous it is righteous jealousy.

All those lines run together I can't talk about one line at a time, This is your opinion of me and God. I know God through Jesus Christ and He was never "The" self-centered God. He died for the world and that those that believe in Him will never perish but have eternal life. Jesus is centered on the Father and the Farther is centered on man who will receive the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit in us is now centered on Jesus, but many have worshiped others things like words. I have no problem with God being a jealous God that God should be jealous God, because He is not self-centered and those who are, He should be not pleased with. That is is why His Jealousy is righteous. God the Father has Jesus and the Angel's that our His glorifying Him, He doesn't need anyone else to glorify Him, but He returns gives that glory to man that is His then they give it to Jesus and around and around it goes. What a meek and humble God we serve Jesus Christ, my Lord and my God.

Why would God be jealous God of a people that are doing what He wants them to do, unless they are not?

 

[Winman]

I agree with Psalms, I do not see God as self-centered whatsoever. He is not one to stare in the mirror and tell himself how great he is all the time. That sounds like one of the Greek gods from mythology to me.
We should love God because he is our Creator and shows perfect love toward us, it is only right you should love someone who loves you. But God's love is greater than that, he even loves those who hate him.
If God was self-centered, he wouldn't care about us, and he certainly wouldn't have given his Son to die for us.
I notice a vast difference in how non-Cals and Calvinists view God. I am sorry, but Calvinists seem to view God as a tyrant who demands we glorify him every moment. This reminds me of dictators like Hitler that ordered the Germans to post millions of photographs of him everywhere, in schools and even homes. Children in schools were ordered to stand and salute to Hitler's photograph 300 times per day. Incredible but true. Who could love a tyrant like this? Your only natural response would be fear.
Ever work for a boss that was a tyrant? Did you love him? Did you respect him? I have worked for people like this and no one loved or respected them. I have also worked for kindly bosses, and people will go out of their way to please them.
So, how Calvinists view God is very different from non-Cals, like night and day.