The Semi-Pelagian Narrow Catechism

[quantumfaith]

I smell straw.

And a slight personal attack that is unfounded and subjective.

- Peace

Strawberries?

 

[preacher4truth]

Strawberries?

Only if they are using strawberries on stall floors these days. :thumbsup:

 

[convicted1]

The Semi-Pelagian Narrow Catechism


The Semi-Pelagian Narrower Catechism
I saw this in my travels around the internet and thought I would share it. Funny stuff.
1. Q: What is the chief end of each individual Christian?
A: Each individual Christian's chief end is to get saved. This is the first and great commandment.

2. Q: And what is the second great commandment?
A: The second, which is like unto it, is to get as many others saved as he can.

3. Q: What one work is required of thee for thy salvation?
A: It is required of me for my salvation that I make a Decision for Christ, which meaneth to accept Him into my heart to be my personal lord and saviour

4. Q: At what time must thou perform this work?
A: I must perform this work at such time as I have reached the Age of Accountability.

5. Q: At what time wilt thou have reached this Age?
A: That is a trick question. In order to determine this time, my mind must needs be sharper than any two-edged sword, able to pierce even to the division of bone and marrow; for, alas, the Age of Accountability is different for each individual, and is thus unknowable.

6. Q: By what means is a Decision for Christ made?
A: A Decision for Christ is made, not according to His own purpose and grace which was given to me in Christ Jesus before the world began, but according to the exercise of my own Free Will in saying the Sinner's Prayer in my own words.

7. Q: If it be true then that man is responsible for this Decision, how then can God be sovereign?
A: He cannot be. God sovereignly chose not to be sovereign, and is therefore dependent upon me to come to Him for salvation. He standeth outside the door of my heart, forlornly knocking, until such time as I Decide to let Him in.

8. Q: How then can we make such a Decision, seeing that the Scripture saith, we are dead in our trespasses and sins?
A: By this the Scripture meaneth, not that we are dead, but only that we are sick or injured in them.

9. Q: What is the assurance of thy salvation?
A: The assurance of thy salvation is, that I know the date on which I prayed the Sinner's Prayer, and have duly written this date on an official Decision card.

10. Q: What is thy story? What is thy song?
A: Praising my Savior all the day long.

11. Q: You ask me how I know he lives?
A: He lives within my heart.

12. Q: And what else hast thou got in thine heart?
A: I've got the joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart.

13. Q: Where??
A: Down in my heart!

14. Q: Where???
A: Down in my heart!!

15. Q: What witness aid hath been given us as a technique by which we may win souls?
A: The tract known commonly as the Four Spiritual Laws, is the chief aid whereby we may win souls.

16. Q: What doth this tract principally teach?
A: The Four Spiritual Laws principally teach, that God's entire plan for history and the universe centereth on me, and that I am powerful enough to thwart His divine purpose if I refuse to let Him pursue His Wonderful Plan for my life.

17. Q: What supplementary technique is given by which we may win souls?
A: The technique of giving our own Personal Testimony, in the which we must always be ready to give an answer concerning the years we spent in vanity and pride, and the wretched vices in which we wallowed all our lives until the day we got saved.

18. Q: I'm so happy, what's the reason why?
A: Jesus took my burden all away!

19. Q: What are the means given whereby we may large crowds of souls in a spectacular manner?
A: Such a spectacle is accomplished by means of well-publicized Crusades and Revivals which (in order that none may be loath to attend) are best conducted anywhere else but in a Church.

20. Q: Am I a soldier of the Cross?
A: I am a soldier of the Cross if I join Campus Crusade, Boys' Brigade, the Salvation Army, or the Wheaton Crusaders; of if I put on the helmet of Dispensationalism, the breastplate of Pietism, the shield of Tribulationism, and the sword of Zionism, having my feet shod with the gospel of Arminianism.

21. Q: Who is your boss?
A: My boss is a Jewish carpenter.

22. Q: Hath God predestined vessels of wrath to Hell?
A: God hath never performed such an omnipotent act, for any such thing would not reflect His primary attribute, which is Niceness.

23. Q: What is sanctification?
A: Sanctification is the work of my free Will, whereby I am renewed by having my Daily Quiet Time.

24. Q: What rule hath God for our direction in prayer?
A: The rule that we must bow our hands, close our heads, and fold our eyes.

25. Q: What doth the Lord's Prayer teach us?
A: The Lord's Prayer teacheth us that we must never memorize a prayer, or use one that hath been written down.

26. Q: What's the book for thee?
A: The B-I-B-L-E.

27. Q: Which are among the first books which a Christian should read to his soul's health?
A: Among the first books which a Christian should read are the books of Daniel and Revelation, and The Late Great Planet Earth.

28. Q: Who is on the Lord's side?
A: He who doth support whatsoever is done by the nation of Israel, and who doth renounce the world, the flesh, and the Catholic Church.

29. Q: What are the seven deadly sins?
A: The seven deadly sins are smoking, drinking, dancing, card-playing, movie-going, baptizing babies, and having any creed but Christ.

30. Q: What is a sacrament?
A: A sacrament is an insidious invention devised by the Catholic Church whereby men are drawn into idolatry.

31. Q: What is the Lord's Supper?
A: The Lord's Supper is a dispensing of saltines and grape juice, in the which we remember Christ's command to pretend that they are His body and
blood.

32. Q: What is baptism?
A: Baptism is the act whereby, by the performance of something that seems quite silly in front of everyone, I prove that I really, really mean it.

33. Q: What is the Church?
A: The Church is the tiny minority of individuals living at this time who have Jesus in their hearts, and who come together once a week for a sermon, fellowship and donuts.

34. Q: What is the office of the keys?
A: The office of the keys is that office held by the custodian.

35. Q: What meaneth "The Priesthood Of All Believers"?
A: The Priesthood Of All Believers meaneth that there exists no authority in the Church, as that falsely thought to be held by elders, presbyters, deacons, and bishops, but that each individual Christian acts as his own authority in all matters pertaining to the faith.

36. Q: Who is the Holy Spirit?
A: The Holy Spirit is a gentleman Who would never barge in.

37. Q: How long hath the Holy Spirit been at work?
A: The Holy Spirit hath been at work for more than a century: expressly, since the nineteenth-century Revitalization brought about by traveling Evangelists carrying tents across America.

If people really believe that we "A's" believe things like this, no wonder Calvinsim is on the upswing. This is complete and utter nonesense(this belief system posed here).

 

[Luke2427]

If people really believe that we "A's" believe things like this, no wonder Calvinsim is on the upswing. This is complete and utter nonesense(this belief system posed here).

Which ones did you think failed to represent you fairly?

Before you say "almost all of them" or something like that- pick a few- maybe three of four.

Here is what I suspect. I suspect it does represent most of the non-cals viewpoints but they haven't thought it through enough to see how it does.

 

[Iconoclast]

It is no wonder you guys are Calvinists. If this is what I really believed about the alternative I'd still be one too.

I challenge you to stop only dealing with the shallow, namby-pamby, pat answers of unscholarly non-Calvinists and delve into teachings of those who clearly know their stuff. Read Adam Clarke, for example. Stop pretending this caricature of non-Calvinism is your only real opponent on this doctrinal point.

skan...that is a valid point...just having some fun....but at the same time it is in reality very sad that it even gets to this!
I have met people face to face who offer some of this....many more than you would think possible...I travel all the time....meet new people..get into bible conversation.....we need biblical revival...we as a country at this point in time are on life support!

 

[convicted1]

Which ones did you think failed to represent you fairly?

Before you say "almost all of them" or something like that- pick a few- maybe three of four.

Here is what I suspect. I suspect it does represent most of the non-cals viewpoints but they haven't thought it through enough to see how it does.

Uh, how 'bout 1 thru 37 for starters.

 

[convicted1]

skan...that is a valid point...just having some fun....but at the same time it is in reality very sad that it even gets to this!
I have met people face to face who offer some of this....many more than you would think possible...I travel all the time....meet new people..get into bible conversation.....we need biblical revival...we as a country at this point in time are on life support!

This which I bolded[/B gets a hearty (((((AMEN)))))!!!!!

 

[convicted1]

I smell straw.

And a slight personal attack that is unfounded and subjective.

- Peace

Well Brother, when you smell straw, you are usually close to a stall. Guess what is usually under the straw in the stall......step lightly, politely, and ever so slightly.....LOL......Just kidding Brother!!

 

[Luke2427]

Uh, how 'bout 1 thru 37 for starters.

I predicted this would be your response which is why I requested this which you ignored:

Before you say "almost all of them" or something like that- pick a few- maybe three of four.

 

[Skandelon]

skan...that is a valid point...just having some fun....but at the same time it is in reality very sad that it even gets to this!
I have met people face to face who offer some of this....many more than you would think possible...I travel all the time....meet new people..get into bible conversation.....we need biblical revival...we as a country at this point in time are on life support!

I hear you. Truth be told, the reason I remained a Calvinist for a decade was due to some of these types of answers.

I remember the pastor of my home church asking me if I'd ever read John 3:16 and then telling me about a Calvinist he once knew in Seminary who is now selling cars, as if that should prove my doctrine to be in error. Answers like that only sealed me further into my new found "reformed" beliefs. It wasn't until I really sought to study and fully understand the scholars from the "Arminian" perspective that I began to question my Calvinistic conclusions.

I'm not suggesting that you all will change your views like I did if you do this. I'm only saying that it would be refreshing to see that you (generally speaking) actually have studied and correctly represented the opposing scholarly views in your posts, rather than these weak and often misrepresentative answers.

 

[JesusFan]

It is no wonder you guys are Calvinists. If this is what I really believed about the alternative I'd still be one too.

I challenge you to stop only dealing with the shallow, namby-pamby, pat answers of unscholarly non-Calvinists and delve into teachings of those who clearly know their stuff. Read Adam Clarke, for example. Stop pretending this caricature of non-Calvinism is your only real opponent on this doctrinal point.

just for clarification sake...

You are NOT classicical Arm, correct?
As they would hold to the basis of election by God IS His gorknowing/seeing in advance the decision made to accept jesusChrist?

NOT Weselyn, as you do NOT hold to sinless perfection, second act of Grace, as far as i know!

So what Arms are you, is there a third set?

 

[Skandelon]

You are NOT classicical Arm, correct?
As they would hold to the basis of election by God IS His gorknowing/seeing in advance the decision made to accept jesusChrist?

I don't believe all "classical" Arminians believed this and taught it in the manner we see presented here. Some may have, but not all. It's kind of like all the various forms of Calvinism. Who is to say what is true "classical" Calvinism since so many disagree as to what Calvin himself believed on some of the nuanced points of the doctrines? See my point?

 

[JesusFan]

I don't believe all "classical" Arminians believed this and taught it in the manner we see presented here. Some may have, but not all. It's kind of like all the various forms of Calvinism. Who is to say what is true "classical" Calvinism since so many disagree as to what Calvin himself believed on some of the nuanced points of the doctrines? See my point?

Agree with you that there are indeed 'shades" within both cals/Arms!

Just curious...

What do you think about Amyralism? that is my viewpoint at the present time!

 

[Winman]

Hey, I liked Luke's OP, those were pretty good. I have been thinking of some for Calvinists.

Q- What movie did Calvinists boycott?
A- Free Willy

Q- How do you confuse a Calvinist?
A- Ask him to define the word "all"

Q- How many flavors did they offer at the Calvinist owned Ice Cream Parlor?
A- Only one, why offer more?, people are unable to choose.

Calvinist gospel tract:
Would you trust Christ today?
A) No
B) No

[offensive ("joke") edited out]

This is fun... more to come!

 

[Tom Butler]

Hey, I liked Luke's OP, those were pretty good. I have been thinking of some for Calvinists.

Q- What movie did Calvinists boycott?
A- Free Willy

Q- How do you confuse a Calvinist?
A- Ask him to define the word "all"

Q- How many flavors did they offer at the Calvinist owned Ice Cream Parlor?
A- Only one, why offer more?, people are unable to choose.

Calvinist gospel tract:
Would you trust Christ today?
A) No
B) No

[offensive ("joke") edited out]

This is fun... more to come!

Now THAT'S funny, Looking forward to more.

Winman, you are setting a good example of how to respond to a Calvinist's satire. Give us a couple of shots yourself. No need to get your feelings hurt; just laugh and fire back.

 

[DHK]

The Semi-Pelagian Narrow Catechism


The Semi-Pelagian Narrower Catechism
I saw this in my travels around the internet and thought I would share it. Funny stuff.
1. Q: What is the chief end of each individual Christian?
A: Each individual Christian's chief end is to get saved. This is the first and great commandment.

The first and great commandment is to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, and mind. If you obeyed that you would also obey the Great Commission by preaching the gospel to all persons everywhere on earth, and doing your utmost to see that they come to Christ.

2. Q: And what is the second great commandment?
A: The second, which is like unto it, is to get as many others saved as he can.

The second great commandment is to love thy neighbor as thyself, which if obeyed, would mean to so sacrifice your life that you would do everything in your power to bring others to Christ even if means selling all that you have and going to the neediest places on earth with the gospel so that they too might have a chance to hear the gospel. For only by faith will they be saved. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Are you willing to go?

3. Q: What one work is required of thee for thy salvation?
A: It is required of me for my salvation that I make a Decision for Christ, which meaneth to accept Him into my heart to be my personal lord and saviour

For by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves. It is gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. Let's make it clear here. Faith is not a work. Salvation is by faith alone. Without faith you cannot be saved. Unless you put your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice you are not saved! That is simple Bible doctrine.

4. Q: At what time must thou perform this work?
A: I must perform this work at such time as I have reached the Age of Accountability.

At the age of accountability we are all responsible for the light that we have, and that includes hearing the gospel. If you have heard the gospel and do not respond in faith, but reject the gospel you will be damned. (John 3:18,36)

5. Q: At what time wilt thou have reached this Age?
A: That is a trick question. In order to determine this time, my mind must needs be sharper than any two-edged sword, able to pierce even to the division of bone and marrow; for, alas, the Age of Accountability is different for each individual, and is thus unknowable.

At what age did you become accountable.

6. Q: By what means is a Decision for Christ made?
A: A Decision for Christ is made, not according to His own purpose and grace which was given to me in Christ Jesus before the world began, but according to the exercise of my own Free Will in saying the Sinner's Prayer in my own words.

If you have never received Christ as your savior you are not saved.
He that hath the son hath life; he that hath not the son hath not life.
If thou shalt call upon the name of the Lord thou shalt be saved.
The onus is on you to call upon the name of the Lord. God isn't going to do it for you. If you think he is you have been deceived.

7. Q: If it be true then that man is responsible for this Decision, how then can God be sovereign?
A: He cannot be. God sovereignly chose not to be sovereign, and is therefore dependent upon me to come to Him for salvation. He standeth outside the door of my heart, forlornly knocking, until such time as I Decide to let Him in.

God in his Sovereignty has given man a measure of free will. Though he knows the outcome before that decision is made it is still up to man to make it. He does not force salvation upon man. He has not made man into a robot as Calvinists portray him to be. He desires that man would receive the gift of salvation and worship God out of his own free will, and not be forced to do it as a robot would be forced to obey his master. The latter is unproven Calvinistic drivel.

8. Q: How then can we make such a Decision, seeing that the Scripture saith, we are dead in our trespasses and sins?
A: By this the Scripture meaneth, not that we are dead, but only that we are sick or injured in them.

Dead simply one is separated from God. Adam was dead (separated from God) and yet he continued to talk with God. Dead doesn't mean lifeless or a spiritual corpse. Because the Calvinist has wrongly defined theological terms they have built on a wrong foundation and have ended up with an erroneous foundation. The foundation falls and the only recourse they have is to make fun of others rather than to intelligently respond to their own error. Pity isn't it?

9. Q: What is the assurance of thy salvation?
A: The assurance of thy salvation is, that I know the date on which I prayed the Sinner's Prayer, and have duly written this date on an official Decision card.

1John 5:11-13; Rom.8:1; Phi. 1:6; Rom.8:38,39; John 3:16; John 5:24.
My assurance lies in the promises of the Word of God.
The Calvinist has no assurance of salvation, for he is not entirely sure that he will persevere to the end. He can never be 100% sure of this, neither can he have 100% surety in his heart that he is indeed one of the elect? What objective proof can he bring to the table that he is indeed one of the elect? How can he prove that his name is one of the ones that is written in the Lamb's book of life. He cannot. The non-cal doesn't have that problem.

10. Q: What is thy story? What is thy song?
A: Praising my Savior all the day long.

Do you have a problem with that? Isn't Eph. 1 one of your favorite chapters? Have you read Eph.1:12, 18 recently? Or don't you like singing of God's grace?

11. Q: You ask me how I know he lives?
A: He lives within my heart.

If thou shalt believe with thine heart and confess with thy mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, thou shalt be saved?
Do you know for sure, based on that scripture, that you are saved?
Salvation is by faith and faith alone. But would the Calvinist of today believe what Martin Luther believed? sola fide.

Now that is the first ten. Good enough?

 

[Winman]

Now THAT'S funny, Looking forward to more.

Winman, you are setting a good example of how to respond to a Calvinist's satire. Give us a couple of shots yourself. No need to get your feelings hurt; just laugh and fire back.

Yes, those were all meant in pure fun. I am very secure in my beliefs, someone calling me a heretic, or a blasphemer, or having a dark wicked heart does not shake my faith in what I believe, I actually get a chuckle out of it.

So, if any Calvinist got their feelings hurt by my jokes, I apologize.

 

[Winman]

Great post #36 DHK, just because regular folks don't use $100 words does not mean they are not expressing the truth as they know how.


When the woman at the well left her waterpot to rush into town and tell everyone about Jesus, I seriously doubt she spoke in sophisticated theological language. She simply knew that Jesus was the promised Christ they all looked for. And whatever she said worked, for the scriptures say many of the Samaritans believed on Jesus for the saying of the woman. (Jn 4:39).

You don't have to be a theologian to tell people about Jesus.

 

[JesusFan]

The first and great commandment is to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, soul, and mind. If you obeyed that you would also obey the Great Commission by preaching the gospel to all persons everywhere on earth, and doing your utmost to see that they come to Christ.

We cannot obey fully that commandment though...
IF we could obey to God requirement ANY of the 10. why would Christ have to die for us?

The second great commandment is to love thy neighbor as thyself, which if obeyed, would mean to so sacrifice your life that you would do everything in your power to bring others to Christ even if means selling all that you have and going to the neediest places on earth with the gospel so that they too might have a chance to hear the gospel. For only by faith will they be saved. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Are you willing to go?

man HAS to first be in a spiritual condition to be able to freely respond and accept jesus, called quickening/enabling Grace

For by grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourselves. It is gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. Let's make it clear here. Faith is not a work. Salvation is by faith alone. Without faith you cannot be saved. Unless you put your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice you are not saved! That is simple Bible doctrine.

is it though my faith to own/possess, or Gods gift to me?

At the age of accountability we are all responsible for the light that we have, and that includes hearing the gospel. If you have heard the gospel and do not respond in faith, but reject the gospel you will be damned. (John 3:18,36)

ALL of us will be damned by God, Once we reach that AGe, regardless IF we heard the Gospel...
We are born sinners, and by our very natures, apart from God...

At what age did you become accountable.
God alone knows that!

If you have never received Christ as your savior you are not saved.
He that hath the son hath life; he that hath not the son hath not life.
If thou shalt call upon the name of the Lord thou shalt be saved.
The onus is on you to call upon the name of the Lord. God isn't going to do it for you. If you think he is you have been deceived.

God will outof His grace and mercy 'allow" us tio be able to place faith in jesus... has to deal with our spiritual deadness to God, not JUST lack of relationship, we have NO spirit residing in us due to fall!

God in his Sovereignty has given man a measure of free will. Though he knows the outcome before that decision is made it is still up to man to make it. He does not force salvation upon man. He has not made man into a robot as Calvinists portray him to be. He desires that man would receive the gift of salvation and worship God out of his own free will, and not be forced to do it as a robot would be forced to obey his master. The latter is unproven Calvinistic drivel.

You are beating the "straw man" here of your own making..
Cals do NOT believe God is our puppet master pulling our strings, :forcing" us to accept Jesus and get saved...

We DO believe NONE of us seek God by own self, being sinners, and that those chosen and elected out by God will be enabled by Him to freely chose Jesus...

They will because being enabled/quickened, the message of the cross will make "sense" to them, and they will freely come to Jesus and get saved!

Dead simply one is separated from God. Adam was dead (separated from God) and yet he continued to talk with God. Dead doesn't mean lifeless or a spiritual corpse. Because the Calvinist has wrongly defined theological terms they have built on a wrong foundation and have ended up with an erroneous foundation. The foundation falls and the only recourse they have is to make fun of others rather than to intelligently respond to their own error. Pity isn't it?

What is amusing is that you keep pounding on a non biblical concept of spiritual death

MORE than seperation from God, its that we Cannot ever have one with Him, as due to the fall, we are sinners without means to decide to obey God and believe in jesus by ourselves!

1John 5:11-13; Rom.8:1; Phi. 1:6; Rom.8:38,39; John 3:16; John 5:24.
My assurance lies in the promises of the Word of God.
The Calvinist has no assurance of salvation, for he is not entirely sure that he will persevere to the end. He can never be 100% sure of this, neither can he have 100% surety in his heart that he is indeed one of the elect? What objective proof can he bring to the table that he is indeed one of the elect? How can he prove that his name is one of the ones that is written in the Lamb's book of life. He cannot. The non-cal doesn't have that problem.

Then you make Paul and John liars, as they both written to give us "full assurance'can know" that we are indeed saved and children of God!

Do you have a problem with that? Isn't Eph. 1 one of your favorite chapters? Have you read Eph.1:12, 18 recently? Or don't you like singing of God's grace?

If thou shalt believe with thine heart and confess with thy mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord, thou shalt be saved?
Do you know for sure, based on that scripture, that you are saved?
Salvation is by faith and faith alone. But would the Calvinist of today believe what Martin Luther believed? sola fide.
The same Luther that wrote "Bondage of the Will?"
That was even MORE calvinistic in SOliertology than Calvin Himself?
Really accepted depravity and inabilityto come to God in ourselves?



Now that is the first ten. Good enough?

Now if you could JUST refute"true" calvinism and not the starw man keep posting about!

 

[preacher4truth]

Now if you could JUST refute"true" calvinism and not the starw man keep posting about!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: